40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Hi Darin,

Yes that is a very big concern for sure! I have looked closely at many builds to see how the transition into the chimney was constructed. I will take extra care to make sure no smoke exiting the dome arch bypasses the flue in the transition area. The vent pipe goes out the side wall into a 21' tall chimney so total length of chimney pipe is around 26'. It should draft well once it's warmed up. If all works as planned there won't be any smoke out the front except for a brief moment on the initial fire start up. If it becomes an issue I could make a partial outer door to block the upper portion of the outer arch for that first minute or two while the flue warms up. All in all this is a big learning experience and hopefully I have thought of all the potential issues!

Tony

[hodgey1]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

ok floor time! I should preface this with the following: I have been using a 1/2" thick stone in the oven for quite some time. We have a commercial range so I can get it up to about 550f. However it still drives me nuts when you can see the crispiness of the bottom crust fall off a cliff even after 3 or 4 pizzas or flat breads! I want a floor that will hold heat and lots of it! So I am going against the grain here from what it seems most people use for floor thickness and making it 5" thick. I realize it will take a while to heat properly but that's ok.
Tony

I'm no expert and I hope others who are would weight in, but I think having a floor that thick might be a real preheating problem for you. I can more than assure you that you would not have problem with floor temp's dramatically dropping if you would use the recommended firebricks laid flat so you would have a floor 2.5" thick with the proper insulation.

It takes me "42 FB plans WFO" somewhere between 90 & 120 mins to get a good preheat going in my WFO, with the floor in the 750-800*F range and the ceiling around a 1000*F. Once my floor has been charged with coals, I have been letting it stabilize a bit before cooking 15-20min. I can cook 8-10 pie in a row without seeing a appreciable dip in floor temp. The beauty is, if it does start to fall a bit, all you have to do is switch sides you're cooking on and shovel the fire to the other side and cook where the fire was. I did a party two weeks ago and did 25 pies without having to move the fire.

Just my 2 cents.

[Novaslo]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

I built mine using the Forno Bravo kit with 2 inch tiles and Fiber Board with 3 inches of Blanket. I can heat up in 90 minutes to 2 hours....that is all fine. The floor cooks perfectly with the right ratio of heat above. It is spec'd that way for a reason and just works/cooks great. I would be careful to go with bricks on edge for fear that sometimes if you don't have time to go the full two hour heat up time etc, you might have pizza with an uncooked bottom.
I am very glad that I used the kit, which kept me to the design that they recommend.

Just more input for you.

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Thanks guys for the replies. You are both probably correct. I got a bit carried away with the floor. It is definitely on the experimental side. If it turns out to take way too long to preheat I can always pull the bricks add some more insulation board and put in a thinner floor. One of the other reasons I opted for the floor inside the dome.

Tony

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

If it turns out to take way too long to preheat I can always pull the bricks add some more insulation board and put in a thinner floor

If it were me, I'd do it now. Save for a dedicated bread oven, there are no benefits to a floor 5"-thick, only drawbacks. A 2.5"-deep conventional floor with the bricks laying face up reduces the number of exposed seams not to mention the number of cuts required. I might even install an inch of insulating castable on top of your plywood for good measure.

By the way if you have ever tried to trim 1/16" off the face of a brick with the wet saw you might discover that the blade wants to deflect off

I cut all of my dome and entryway bricks this way. I was lucky to have a contractor saw to work with, but, using patience and plenty of water, you can minimize the deflection. If you're like me and start rushing (after a couple of beers), plan on rotating your blade every dozen bricks or so. What really deflects the blade is contouring (radiusing?) the inside face of your brick by dragging it perpendicular across the blade.

I will take extra care to make sure no smoke exiting the dome arch bypasses the flue in the transition area

The big commercial pizzaria ovens have tiny vents that breathe beautifully. I'd copy their design.

John

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Thanks for your thoughts John. Well the floor is kinda in already.. I am just a slacker with transferring photos from the camera to the computer and uploading. Anyone aware of pompeii ovens with thicker floors?

Regarding the transition area I will look into the way commercial pizzaria ovens vent. I was thinking something along the lines of a funnel shape. Starting out vertical from the floor of the transition area and then angling inward at maybe 45 degrees until narrow enough to place the plate for the round stove pipe connection. That way I should catch smoke that might exit the oven arch more towards the sides. I am making the hemispherical shaped arches so they should tend to push more of the smoke towards the center high point I would think as well.

Tony

[cookingdude555]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

If you want a thick floor, why not put another regular floor on top of the first one (laying the bricks the traditional way for both levels)? Removal of the second floor seems easier if desired, and you would be left with a standard floor under it anyway. Just a thought. I haven't built my oven yet, so I am excited to see your results. Thanks and keep posting.

[hodgey1]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Thanks for your thoughts John. Well the floor is kinda in already.. I am just a slacker with transferring photos from the camera to the computer and uploading. Anyone aware of pompeii ovens with thicker floors?

Like others have said earlier, the thick floor is adding to the thermal mass and going to greatly impact your preheat time and fuel consumption. Check with any of the "pro's" http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/1919-stonecutter/ here that build for a living and ask them their opinion to confirm. I would correct the problem now before proceeding any further.

[Novaslo]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

When someone says the pizza top and toppings are done before the crust! We all know what is wrong. Floor not hot enough. Dome too hot.

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Yes it is adding mass and will increase the preheat and fuel consumption. I am not sure I consider this a problem though..Neither of those will bother me unless it is on the order of additional hours. Fuel is not an issue here where I am and I work at the house so can start a fire whenever... even if it is just a small fire burning for most of the day to let the heat penetrate and then a bigger fire towards cooking time. I do plan to use the oven for much more than just pizza so I was wanting something with extra mass. I think it will come down to just how much longer, and how much more fuel and I won't really know that until it's in use. And then it will boil down to if it's worth the extra effort on my part.

Darin for sure if the bottom isn't crispy before the top is done the stone/brick isn't hot enough. I get that plenty with my little cooking stone in the gas oven now..From all the posts I have read I thought most have to 'dome' their pizza briefly to brown up the top which would indicate the bottom crust is done first? From my understanding it's more related to the shape of the higher pompeii dome vs a true pizza oven and not brick temperature?

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

If you want a thick floor, why not put another regular floor on top of the first one (laying the bricks the traditional way for both levels)? Removal of the second floor seems easier if desired, and you would be left with a standard floor under it anyway. Just a thought. I haven't built my oven yet, so I am excited to see your results. Thanks and keep posting.

I had considered that but would have ended up with 4.5" instead of the 5" I had planned. I was unsure how well the heat would penetrate between two stacked thinner layers. So I opted for cutting the bricks to get the solid single layer dimensions I wanted.

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

I mentioned the floor was in. So here is a photo with the floor in and IT device.

My goal is to maintain the 20" radius as the dome is constructed.. or at least end as close to 20" inside dome height as I could. The hinge on my IT is about 1.25" off the floor of the oven. I looked at the possibility of maybe offsetting the IT hinge as some have done. In the end I decided it would be easier to shorten the IT length by about 1/8" per course. I welded a 3/8" coarse thread nut on the end of the metal tube and inserted a 3/8" threaded rod. At 16 threads/inch, two rotations in would shorten the IT length by 1/8". In actuality I didn't start shortening the IT until the 3rd course as I wanted a few of the lower courses to be just a tad more vertical. I found that I had to open the IT bracket just a little past 90 degrees to compensate for the adjustment and prevent a step from forming between each course.

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Oh not sure if I mentioned the oven arch dimensions:

20" wide x 12.75" high in the center. I used a 10" radius circle and raised it 2.75" to give me the height.

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Just a shot of course 3 and checking everything before mortar..

[Tonyp]

Re: 40" Indoor Pompeii in NNY

Row 4 done and starting on Row 5