Hello. Guidance Welcome!

[stonecutter]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Yes I'm already on the plastic hunt - some sort of pond liner is what I'm looking at.

My main gripe with the concrete is cost. I'm definitely going for a 'good enough' rather than 'best practice' approach. Reuse of what I have lying around is my main aim. Aesthetics does come into it and also a dislike to working with concrete but I'll use concrete if I have to. My dislike of concrete is compounded by spending the last few months digging up and removing a load of it from my garden. I'm having a hard time thinking about bringing a load back in!

I'm confident I can solve the moisture issue. It's the structural issue I'm worried about at present, particularly the added stress to the retaining (dry stone) wall. I may need to rethink the location, in which case I'll need to build a foundation and base anyway.

Ok, I'm guilty of skimming your op and missed that you are placing your oven on the dry wall. I would advise you to place the oven base on the front of the wall. Without getting into all the specifics of why (there are many) the soundness of your slab or base..is partially dependent on the dry stone wall for support and stability. That's a big problem...unless it is properly built. So it means you have to build a stand, instead if using the wall.

I can't say with 100% certainty that the wall is unsuitable based on a picture, but I'd have a good idea. If you put one up, I'd be happy to look at it.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Pic is in the op, but here it is again.

My original intended location was to dig back towards the wendy house, starting roughly where the pile crap is. Me being a novice, I thought this was a handy way of not having to build a stand. Didn't really consider all the extra weight putting stress on the wall before talking it over with all the helpful folk here.

I don't think it will be suitable.

[deejayoh]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Maybe it's just me, but I am not understanding the cost concerns with concrete. DIY concrete pours are pretty cheap. One can get all the materials needed to pour a slab for maybe $75. Seems worth the investment given all the labor to build the oven that it supports.

"Penny wise, pound foolish". That's an English saying isn't it?

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

It's purely me being a cheapskate and I agree I'm penny pinching, but that's the ethos of my project. I'm trying to make use of what I've already got hanging around rather than buying anything else. So it's from an approach of 'do you think I can make a pizza oven with this' rather than 'I want a pizza oven what do I need'. It's the ultimate cheapskate pizza oven project and how I go about it is as important to me as the finished product.

My original plan was a purely cobb oven which was going to cost ?0.
Going for a brick oven has already increased my budget somewhat, but I think it definitely worth it for the better end product. I've set myself a target of ?250 all in. I'm already thinking that was woefully na?ve!

[stonecutter]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

It's the ultimate cheapskate pizza oven project and how I go about it is as important to me as the finished product.

What about a timber stand? Use reclaimed shipping skids? Should be able to find those free.

[deejayoh]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Well, you need cement, sand, and lime for your mortar and for your dome coating anyway. So buy a little more of that than you need and scrounge up some gravel as aggregate and wa-la. You've got concrete! All you need is a bit of rebar, which you can probably find somewhere if you look hard enough.

250 pounds should get you there if you already have the bricks on hand. That's the expensive part.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Ok you've all convinced me. Concrete slab base it is. With the materials I have lying around I can't see a solution that doesn't come with significant risks and as many have pointed out it is minimal extra cost.
Thanks for all the advice.

I just need to work out whether the wall will take it or not now. I've added a better picture of it.

Apparently these walls can take a load of weight on top of them. The guy who built it for me has pictures of trucks on top of his dry stone walls! The key thing is will the extra weight on the bank push the wall out? I guess I may need to go for my test.

If all goes well, following stonecutter's advice, I'll be planning to build on the top of the wall backwards. I'll also dig down a bit and put some compacted material down underneath my concrete slab to improve drainage.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

What about a timber stand? Use reclaimed shipping skids? Should be able to find those free.

Sorry missed this reply yesterday.
Yes good idea.

Another possibility is I have a load of thick tree trunk cut into sections. Certainly enough to make a base somehow.

Still working on plan A at the moment though.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Hello all again. It's been a while as I ran out of time last year to start building as I built a tree house for the kids instead. The good weather in the uk recently has enabled me to get started on my oven.

I laid the base a couple of weeks ago and I've been working furiously over last weekend and a couple of evenings this week and have closed the dome. I've still got the front arch, flue, insulation, render and door to go, but it should be usable as a pizza oven soon.

The weather is turning so I now have time to post some pics and update you all.

A reminder that my build is not designed to be perfect as it's main purpose was to get rid of bricks I had lying around my property. My target was low cost (original budget of ?250) but good enough for pizzas and a day or two of oven cooking after.

My original intention was to be the ultimate cheapskate and not spend a penny more than I had to and to think up creative uses for other material material as I had on site.
However seeing as it was going to take a lot of effort to build, I decided on less risky options for the base and insulation. In all I've spent ?350 so far including tools with a door the last item to source.

I'm hoping my experience will inform people of experiences with sub optimal builds to see what trade offs you actually make with the materials I've used and to see if my goal of pizzas and two days of (good enough) baking is achievable.

I'll describe my build in the next posts...

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Location and base

I'm building straight onto a retained bank. This was my major headache as I wanted to make sure I could:
keep moisture out of my base
get a solid enough base that movement isn't an issue
not break my retaining wall
not use an inch of concrete more than I need to so use a circular slab.

I took the advice on here to lay a concrete slab that sits on top of the wall and put drainage gravel and a pond liner underneath the slab.
I used an old iron fence as a concrete reinforcement which is my only risk taking with the base - I'm guessing it wont react with the concrete to weaken it? I was thinking it would be a strong option. Didn't consider bad chemistry possibilities until too late.

It certainly feels strong right now!

I'm not fully decided on this, but my aim at the end is to have the dome 'integrated' into the bank where I will fill in the earth around my dome so it looks like it is part of the landscape. This will mean my dome at the back will about 1.5 foot below earth level at the back and a few inches at the front sides. The earth is going to be kept off my dome using a wooden frame with pond liner between the earth and the wood. The frame will contact the dome at few points, but theoretically other than that it should not be any different to the exposed part of the dome. Does anyone see a problem with this?

I've made sure I've thought of drainage to keep water off the concrete slab and will arrange a pond liner 'gusset' so that any rain water heads down under the slab AND the pond liner beneath and not between the slab and the pond liner.

Other than these oddities, it a pretty standard slab to build off and meant I did not need to build a stand.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Oven Floor.


I'm bulding a 36inch oven.

I've put 10cm of cal sil board as an insulation base.

Then I've used some old storage heater bricks donated from by dad as an oven floor.

I had a real hard time cutting the bricks with my grinder to get a nice circle. Well that was until I realised I had a diamond tipped blade hidden away in my set! I was only using a score and bolster cut method, but what a different that made! The pics here are before I made my discovery so the cracked bricks have been replaced and my floor is pretty much circular.

I could have not worried about a neat circle to fit inside the dome bricks and built the dome on top of floor bricks, but I wanted to make sure I had an option to replace them if they proved too unsuitable for the oven or the difference between the different type of bricks was causing problems.

Then I used a first course of soldiers with the engineering brick I had lying around my property. This is actually my only regret so far. I thought using whole brick soldiers would save me cutting time, but it made too much vertical height early on that I had to compensate for on each course to get the right height of dome. In the end I was still half an inch higher than I was aiming for but close enough. It would have been easier if I had used half brick solders at a first course and not had to make all the adjustments.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Building the dome

I built the dome using bolster cut engineering brick scored by a grinder.
I used a cobbled together dome gauge with bits I had lying around. I packed the head of the gauge with differing widths of wood to provide the adjustment I needed. I removed these bits as I went up the courses

The last few courses I had to build a form from 5mm plywood + wood frame as the vertical slope was too much for the mortar to grab the brick quickly and was taking too long.
But I am definitely a fan of the Dome Gauge method for the lower courses as for me it was really helpful to work from inside the oven and clean up as I went.

I used homebrew mortar and found that the 3:1:1:1 mix was great to work with, but I did seem to dry and crack very quickly.
I ended up settling on a 5or6:1:1:1 mix by the top courses that seemed to work better, particularly with my large mortar joints.
I made the mortar by dry mixing all the material, then adding water and mixing with a plaster whisk attachment to my sds drill.
I was really happy with this and could mix a bucket really quickly. This worked for the concrete base too by the way and I didn't miss a cement mixer at all.

I built the inner arch first and then skimmed the arch/dome brick by eye when the two met. I don't have a picture of the dome/arch transition as I forgot to take some when I was in my WFO building frenzy. But I was pretty happy with the results - no little cubby holes for preventing air circulation or soot gathering.

The key stone worked out fine too as a tapered whole brick packed with off cuts either side worked out fine. I wasn't after a pretty finish, just something strong. I need to plug a hole where I didn't fill with mortar properly but apart from that it seems a good fit.

All the cuts were half brick cuts up until the last few courses where it was a matter of using my eye to skim quarter brick cuts to the correct shape.

Using just unshaped half bricks meant there are lots of places of wide mortar joints. I packed these with all the off cuts of the bricks to add a bit of strength or skimmed some bricks to lessen the width of the joints.

It's been a couple of days since I closed the dome and the wide joints seem to be holding up at the moment with minimal cracks and the dome seems very solid.

All in all the dome seemed to fly up particularly for a complete novice like me! From clear base to closed dome was 2.5 days work but I did take quite a slapdash approach working by eye rather than detailed measurements. The score and bolster cut method was much easier than I was expecting too.

Well that brings everything up to date.

I'll keep you posted as to how the next stages go. I've started curing the oven while I wait for better weather to build the front arch, entry hearth and fit the flue. I'll be adding a thermal break using fire cladding rope as well.

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

P.S I know it looks like a diseased hedgehog at the moment. It should look more iglooish when I've finished!

And thanks to all on this forum - without whom I couldn't have got this far.

[Novaslo]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

P.S I know it looks like a diseased hedgehog at the moment. It should look more iglooish when I've finished!

And thanks to all on this forum - without whom I couldn't have got this far.

Trev,
Your build looks great. There is nothing more satisfying that realizing in the end that it is all about cooking! Any imperfections go out the window once you start using it. You will be very proud with how it looks when it is used....cooking utensils always look better used rather than they do new.

Here is something that I think the group here will love - and laugh at.
If you are anything like me, you will be worried that your build will fall over. I have dreamt no less than 30 times, possibly more...that my oven crumbles to the ground. I can only say that I probably dream these dreams simply due to the hours I spent planning and reading these forums and watching every video that I could get my hands on - then the back breaking effort that I put in to get it done. Most of it alone - (It is hard to do as a two or three man project) Too many opinions lol.

The cooking is where it is at. My dreams will probably continue. In the end if I had to, I know how to rebuild it

[atb trev]

Re: Hello. Guidance Welcome!

Thanks Darin,

I dreamt my front arch fell down last night!
I'm planning to take the form out today so it may actually come true.

I'm almost there on fitting the flue, but have ground to a halt quite literally as my grinder has given up. I'll have to borrow one for the last few cuts I need.

Not long now for the first pizza.....