sizes for a 47" napoleon style oven?

[southpaw]

Hi! I?ve been working on the Pompeii Brick Oven plan, I got to the brick oven cooking surface step, the hearth I built is 84'' x 77'' I have a few questions concerning the sizes of the oven.

I read in one of the messages that was describing the specifications of the Naples pizza oven that there are only 3 sizes certified for restaurant use which are: (43") , (47") , (51") and that the dome height has to be 1/3 the floor diameter. I drew the diameter of the (43") using chalk to see how it looks before I actually start and it turned out there was alot of unused space, so I was thinking of building the second size which is the (47"). my question is:

should the dome height (interior height) on that size (47") diameter be (47" / 3) = almost 16"?

because in the Pompeii Brick Oven plan, it only gives u the interior height of the 42" oven, which is 18?! that?s higher than the 47? oven so how could the height be 1/3 the diameter?!

I would like to know what should be the interior height, opening width, and opening height for a 47? interior diameter low vault napoleon style oven?

[james]

Hi Southpaw,

I see that your posting here wasn't answered, and wanted to see if you had rec'd a good response elsewhere, or if we hadn't answered your questions.

Let us know and we can get back on this topic.

James

[PizzaMan]

I read in one of the messages that was describing the specifications of the Naples pizza oven...and that the dome height has to be 1/3 the floor diameter.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe you may be thinking of a common recommendation that the door be just about 2/3 the height of the oven ceiling. This is said to help with the firing of the oven, while not allowing too much heat to be lost in use.

The recommendations in the Forno Bravo site are similar to those often cited by Allen Scott and Daniel Wing: that the ceiling should be high enough to avoid scorching the food, but close enough to allow the ceiling to impart it's stored heat to the food (this may be especially important for bread baking and similar). "The Bread Builders" book recommends something in the neighborhood of 16 to 19 inches. This is pretty consistent with the useful info from Forno Bravo. I will make my 42" oven about 18 inches high, to be consistent with the recommendations for the lower (Naples) style oven, as well as for bread.

I hope this helps a little.

Good luck!

Michael
aka PizzaMan

[david]

Do you plan on following the Pompeii plans?I'm interested to see your results.I tried for an 18" Dome,and ended up with a 20".I guess my Bricks were controlling me!My main problem was my trepidation at building an almost flat vault ceiling and having it all colapse(which I believe James had happen more than once).I have understood that the maximum height of a Neapolitan oven dome should be much less than the recomendations made here ,and be closer to 12"(regardless of your dia.) Apparently to acheive this you will need to build a form (wood/sand?) and 'soldier' your first row of bricks to begin your catenary arch,as the dome takes a 'quick turn' and does not rise gradually as in the Pompeii style ovens.I made some mistakes and changes as I went along ,but have learned a lot from the experience and know that I am closer to achieving the desired results from my next oven.IMO,there are so many areas that can determine the performanceof your oven and adjusted accordingly depending also upon the desired use .My oven entrance is 10 x 19 and it is firing up beautifully (50% of the height,not the recomended 62%),though I have had initial smoke coming out of the entrance-this seems to stop once the Oven heats up and also may be due to breezes blowing in from the outside?Im onto my fourth day of firing,and the steam from the cladding has ceased.Maximum temp in the dome ceiling has exceeded 950 degrees and I have acheived the 'white' stage comfortably.The floor has reached about 550-600 Degrees,but I have not mantained the fire ,and preffered to let it burn out and spread the ash during these initial fires.Sorry this was a little long winded,but I hope it helps you somewhat.Good luck!

[ColonelCorn76]

The Pompeii is a Tuscan oven design (vs. a Neopolitan). The difference being that the Neopolitan is purpose built for pizza and the Tuscan for bread & food (roasts, veggies, etc.).

As such, the Tuscan can make great pizza & everything else. The Neopolitan can make great pizza and good bread & everything else (that fits under its lower dome). The trade-off is that the Tuscan design requires marginally more in the way of materials to build and wood to heat (neither of which are really an issue in the typical home use but in a commercial environment that extra stick of wood adds up over time).

The reason for the higher dome in the Tuscan design is to allow the steam cloud to form which will carmelize but not soak the outer crust of the bread. The Neopolitan's lower dome causes the steam cloud to be closer to the bread which results in less carmelization (less of a chewy crust). The higher dome height also permits a higher door height which makes it easier to get certain roasts (like turkeys) in & out of the oven.

The Tuscan design suggests a dome height that is 50% the floor diameter and a door height 3/5 - 2/3 the dome height. This is a rule of thumb though and good results can be had with a fairly wide variation on either side as folks here have seen.

Jim