Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

[Dutchoven]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

The construction would be pretty straightforward on the oven's themselves. The flue systems you might need to do some research on because you have to make sure gases slow down enough to heat the surface but not so much that the flue system begins to cool and create creosote(fire hazard-BAD ) . The "twister" oven seems like a real winner, seems very simple to use and very user friendly. There was a company that made ovens like that for bakeries as well. would be really difficult to construct one of your own. Hope I can help with some of the questions with some fairly good answers. Check out the other stuff on the MHA site. They have some true "white" ovens that are situated above masonry heaters and that would be similar to the system that would need to be constructed for the stacked ovens. There you will see the routing system for the hot gases as well as where the cleanouts would be located.
All the best!
Dutch

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Ya I see what you are getting at there. Could work, but I guess I'm too much of a newb to know for sure. I think I know have more questions than answers haha. Gotta say though, am intrigued by the rotating oven design. That would solve the problem. Now am I crazy enough to attempt building such a thing on my own? Yes, the answer is yes - I just might be

(famous last words)

le Mongo

[Dutchoven]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

The problem with the "pill" shape(spherical ends and cylindrical middle) would most likely be room for the fire. The artigiano shape is about as narrow as one might go, the deeper the oven is the less convection also (I would guess). My brain is telling me that a "stack" of ovens could work. Both could be a "pompeii" with a very shallow ceiling that would vent out the front as usual but for bottom oven (#1) instead of going directly out you could install a diverter and circulate the hot gases beneath the floor of the top oven and up into the chamber(of #2) to vent out the door. When you don't want to heat #2 you could simply divert the exhaust from #1 straight out, when you want the heat switch to heat #2.
Let's see how everyone chews on this idea!
Dutch

[RTflorida]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

I personally like the idea of an elongated MHA oven with dual side openings or the 'half pill' idea with dual openings. I think either is very possible, its figuring out what type of removable/retractable shared wall to use.

The one thing to keep in mind, and I think this was mentioned - The heat up.
Simply building a fire in the middle would not heat up both sides. This would work for keeping the temps up (we all push our fires to the back or to one side after heat up).
Your left with firing one side, then firing up the other side as needed (and having to wait) then combining the fires in the center to support both
OR
Firing the entire (both sides) of the oven each time (one big ass fire!!!).

this is one of those scenarios where I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.....but a dual, elongated oven is a cool, very cool idea.

[JoeT62]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

I would second Dutch's idea of the new design concept he posted from MHA. I think you would be able to make that as wide as you like - the trick would be in designing some way of isolating half of it (dry stack firebricks?, a partition that slides between?, a folding removable partition of firebrick splits?).

An interesting problem.

And by "interesting" I mean I'm glad it's not MY problem.

Then again, interesting problems often require innovative solutions that occasionally change the entire paradigm.

[Kemo]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Now that I think about it, is there really a difference between the barrel vault and two pompei ovens joined? maybe if you had an elongated pompeii oven that is built more like half of a pill as opposed to half of a ball. you could fire the oven with wood in each door and then slide the coals to the middle between the doors and also some to the far left and right. That might work. Just brainstorming here...

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Well...difficult question. My questions would be
1. What are you going to be cooking in these ovens...primarily?
2. How tight a space are you talking about?
3. Would you have to construct a flue from scratch or do you have one existing?

Twin ovens are not a new concept...as a matter of fact most old french bakeries had twin ovens but...were fired with a separate firebox. You may be able to stack your ovens with possibly one as a "white" oven above and a "pompeii" below.

Let me know on those things and I might be able to steer you in a good direction. Check out my posting on the new oven design on the forum. Might be something of what you are looking for.
Best
Dutch

Pizza is mainly what I'll be cooking. Might try my hand at some hamburger buns but Pizza is the dish. Think of an aprox. 8 foot wide hallway - length in the hallway is not a problem but depth is. Basically I have a max of 56" of depth but it only leaves me with 36" of walking/working space so long peels would be a problem.

By new oven design do you mean the barrel vault the heaters assoc. built?

Thanks.

[Dutchoven]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Well...difficult question. My questions would be
1. What are you going to be cooking in these ovens...primarily?
2. How tight a space are you talking about?
3. Would you have to construct a flue from scratch or do you have one existing?

Twin ovens are not a new concept...as a matter of fact most old french bakeries had twin ovens but...were fired with a separate firebox. You may be able to stack your ovens with possibly one as a "white" oven above and a "pompeii" below.

Let me know on those things and I might be able to steer you in a good direction. Check out my posting on the new oven design on the forum. Might be something of what you are looking for.
Best
Dutch

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Ya all good points. Probably right, when you try and compromise the design you may end up compromising it's performance (and end product results). One thing I didn't think of though is maybe one of those rotating ovens like the Twister. That eliminates the need for a big honking peel and thus takes up less space overall as you have to factor that in unless you have employees that enjoy pain

[wlively]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

I think the twin oven is one to scratch off. As described a fire in the middle would not effeciently heat both. It may work if both ovens are very small, but that is not what you are describing. Then operating both on two chimneys would be difficult. Depending on heat differential and the way the convection currents set-up one vent will definitely be "favored" over the other.

If you must have the twin oven, then it would seem to me the best idea is to build them as completely seperate and individual. BUT, you could share the joining wall, by interlocking the same side bricks, or using half size and butting them next to each other, so that in total you have the same thickness. Now of course, you will loose this ability as the dome increases in hieght if you stay with the standard plans. I don't know the effect on efficiency, but I don't think it would be terrible to have the shared wall verticle, making each a 3/4 dome. Obviously a compromise, but you are already starting at one already. You then build fires in each one against that "common wall" and each wall would share in the heat generated.

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Ya I would put doors on the ovens. I could exhaust each seperately or they could exit each oven straight, then 45 degree over to one exhaust pipe I think. Not sure if this creates a creasote problem though (being on the angle).

Looks like these are my choices so far:

- Barrel Vault with doors on the long side?
- Slim Oval with one or two doors on the long side
- a couple 36" ovens stacked vertically with seperate fires in each
- a couple 36" ovens side by side horizontally with seperate fires
- a couple 36" ovens joined side by side horizontally with a combined fire chamber

or find a way to go for the big oven (48 - 54" internal) somehow (least feasible with my space).

[Kemo]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

i think if you had doors on the ovens...you could have a shared heat source in the middle. what about exhaust? Would you have 2 of those as well?

has anyone combined a fireplace with pizza oven using the same exhaust in a tight spot?

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Some good ideas here. I thought of the barrel vault design but it gets such negative press here I think I'm gun shy on that one. I'm pretty tall so less than ideal cooking height is usually ideal for me Only thing with two is it means two fires and even if you leave one off, by the time you get the rush, fire it up and start cooking, the rush is over. Of course if you knew ahead of time (as in a private party or whatever) that would be a different story.

Sounds like oval is a possibility. Not sure how slim one can get away with here and also where the fire and/or doors should be placed in an oval. Thoughts?

My idea about having two ovens side by side would be two leave a connection between the two - kind of like conjoined twin ovens (ok maybe a bad visual there) or a pair of breasts (way better visual!). I thought if I put a sliding, guillotine type door between the two I could run them on one fire. Idea being when only using one the door would be down but when using two you would raise that door and have the fire in the middle feeding both ovens? I'm not sure if this would work or not though and obviously it's twice the space of say a single 36" oven vs a double 36" oven so one would gather twice the fire.

I guess overall I'm gunshy period as I don't wanna spend a chunk of change on hard to find firebricks (where I am they are) only to find my design doesn't work. Sigh haha.

[dmun]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

My standard answer to the huge oven question is to build two. You could use one for everyday use, and another for high demand time or parties. They could be stacked, but that would leave one or both at an less-than-ideal cooking height.

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Alternative Designs For Tight Spaces

Well, the Artigiano 120 that James sells is oval shaped, so I am sure you could build an oval oven if you wanted to...

http://www.fornobravo.com/residential_pizza_oven/pizza_oven_specs/artigiano120.html

Drake