Insulation information

[dusty]

Re: Insulation information

Well, I still haven't started my dome. I decided that other parts of my project had to be done first - namely the the base for the oven landing. But I'm getting there. Here are some pics I took before the start of work yesterday. I am even closer now.
In the first pic, you can see that I 'm not ready for my oven landing. I want to have that all done before I start the oven. The red bricks will go around the front arch, like the back arch- third photo, and create the base for my landing. But before I could do that, I had to do another thing, and before that, something else....etc.
The second pic is a "before" of the back.
Third pic- half way there!

[dusty]

Re: Insulation information

Man, nice camera work. Your cuts look great. Truth is, I wasn't even going to cut my bricks width-wise 'till I saw your pics. I was just going to put big fat mortar joints on the back of each since you can't see them anyway. I wondered why you went to the trouble and I realized that the less mortar, the better it will retain heat. I'm not useing refratory mortar so it is cetainly even more important.
Thanks Ken,
Dusty as h*## in Sac

[Ken524]

Re: Insulation information

I'm thinking I will make a half form or two just to hold up to the bricks as I set them

That's what I am doing. I made my form out of foam project board from Office Depot. The foam board is not a good material for this; it warps, but the concept works fine.

We happen to have the same saw. When I cut their width, (the 4 1/2" way),I raise the blade, cut about 2/3 through, and then turn them over to finish. Hoping that the two saw cuts match perfectly.

That's exactly how I do it.

if so, how do you get them so perfect looking?

I don't. Photos lie - no kidding. While it's a good saw, it's still a cheap saw. My blade doesn't seem to be rigged exactly square to the table. It's close, but I think it's around a 1/2 degree or so off of vertical (the bricks also aren't perfectly square). When I flip my brick over, it never exactly lines up. I just do the best I can.

You can/will fix any cutting errors with mortar joints. I'm always amazed at how a pro mason can take a pallet of those ugly, misshaped common bricks and set them absolutely perfectly in the mortar for a gorgeous looking home.

[dusty]

Re: Insulation information

Thanks Ken,
That's what I plan to do also. I'm thinking I will make a half form or two just to hold up to the bricks as I set them, so I get them set identical as I go around, and I'll just move it from brick to brick as I go.
I have been meaning to ask you a saw question. I've seen your pictures, very impressed by-the-way, and I was wondering your technique for cutting the bricks' width. We happen to have the same saw. When I cut their width, (the 4 1/2" way),I raise the blade, cut about 2/3 through, and then turn them over to finish. Hoping that the two saw cuts match perfectly. As we both know, the brick hits the arbor if you try to do it in one pass with a 10" blade. Is that what you do? And if so, how do you get them so perfect looking?
Dusty.

[Ken524]

Re: Insulation information

at what course did you really NEED the forms?

I'm on the 8th course and still don't need forms. It really hasn't be difficult (yet). I plan on pressing on as far as I can go. I really like being able to reach in and sponge the joints clean.

[dusty]

Re: Insulation information

Hot tip Dave! Someone had to learn the hard way, thanks for sharing. I was wondering, at what course did you really NEED the forms? I ask because I kinda remember someone saying that the forms made it difficult to do work on the inside. Like sponge the mortar joints and line the bricks up accuratly and such.
Dusty

[asudavew]

Re: Insulation information

I almost forgot. Here is a recent photo of my oven floor and the first cource I was talking about Dave. I plan to build a red brick enclosure around all 5 sides. You can see the ledge that they sit on in this pic.
Dusty

Man that looks really nice!

Do yourself a favor though, cut your dome pattern out of something more substantial. I used card board, it gets wet, mortar gets dropped on it, and it is flimsy. I wish I would of used some masonite or styrofoam. I think I would of had a better dome, and more accurate.

You won't regret it!

[Les]

Re: Insulation information

Dusty,

I believe you wanted the walls sitting on the insulation, not the floor. But given the size of your hearth, you have to go with what you have. I really don't see it as that big of an issue. I wouldn't mortar the two together, they will pretty much get locked together with the cladding on the side. In regard to the grout bag - you nailed it.

Les...

[dusty]

Re: Insulation information

I almost forgot. Here is a recent photo of my oven floor and the first cource I was talking about Dave. I plan to build a red brick enclosure around all 5 sides. You can see the ledge that they sit on in this pic.
Dusty

[dusty]

Re: Insulation information

Grout bag? That bottom brick on the left of my back-door arch represents the first brick I ever laid. Good or bad, I'm not intimidated by any project. If it can be done, I feel as though I can do it. But I do lack experience. I've never heard of a grout bag but I can imagine what it is. Like a canvas cake decorater bag I'm guessing.
I was drinking beer and listening to the baseball game last night when I came up with that gooofy scheme. I thought more about it, and looked at some of Ken pics, and I have decided to install an angle on top of the soldiers so as not to have a big mortar joint on the back between the soldiers and the second course where I plan to make my largest angle transition. So... if I'm going to pick them all up again anyway...... (I still like my idea, though).
Do you think I should mortar between the floor and the bottom of the first course or just set them there?
Thanks guys, Dusty

[Acoma]

Re: Insulation information

Drake, what about the Refmix? You did 1" there too I believe? NO?

[DrakeRemoray]

Re: Insulation information

Drake,

I like the idea of only 3" inches of insulation. But I am curious about your outside temps, because I will soon be at the outside insulating stage. How hot does your dome get on the outside?

Thanks a bunch!

Hey Asudavew, Just saw this question. I went back over my notes (and previous posts), I think I did have 4" to insulate. 2" of blanket, 2" of loose vermiculite, then concrete board, then decorative thin brick (it is like 1/4" thick).

The oven is very well insulated, I have done large burns two days in a row with the outside only going up about 20 degrees at the end of the second day. On a normal bake day, you cannot detect any difference in temperature, even directly outside of the fire's location.

Drake

[Les]

Re: Insulation information

put it in a zip-lock bag, cut off a corner, and squeeze it into the triangles like a cake decorater?

Dusty - you can buy a real grout bag at a masonry store for around $5.00, and it will last forever.

Les...

[asudavew]

Re: Insulation information

Personally I would remove them, and mortar between each one. I'm not sure if you can get good adherent with just squirting it in. Although I think I have read where others have used a grout bag to do that.

I am also not sure if you would get air bubbles in the mortar and what the effects of doing so would be... do air pockets in mortar cause cracks during heating?

Plus, the less water that you use the better. The cement sets stronger with less water.


Just my two cents... BTW I love the look you've got going.

Have any pictures of your layout and hearth?

[Acoma]

Re: Insulation information

Dusty, Uno and others can correct me if I am wrong, but mortar between the bricks if you want to leave them in place. Also, do an inch of mortar around the exterior base of the dome with refmix. I suggest you do the whole dome upon completion with 1" refmix anyways, that is why I say to put around base with 1" now if you want continued stability. Dome should be fine this way. Anyone disagree?