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40" oven build with questions I couldn't find answers to. - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

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  • 40" oven build with questions I couldn't find answers to.

    So first post, The oven is starting to get real, was able to buy hundreds of Diablo fire bricks, (3800 degree fire rating) it’s their third/fourth life, they came out of a sugar refinery and then was used for a huge Kiln for a notable artist. And then was dumped, and buried on the side of a house infested with cockroaches… Yes it was disgusting, there was thousands of them with the bricks. I Sealed my trailer and then bombed them for days. Power washed them, and then ground and or cut the bricks outer layer off, so no more standard size. Now the bricks are in San Francisco, and I’m pre-cutting them for a 40” oven, that will be built in Mazatlán Mexico for a commercial Pizza oven in my art gallery. along with those bricks I have hundreds of k-26 ceramic bricks. I am planning on using for insulation. I searched all the post but couldn’t find anyone using full bricks only half bricks, they way I read it is if I use full bricks I should be able to retain more of the fire’s energy. I am shaping them for a very tight fit with only 1/8 mortar joints.

    The oven size is 40” with a 20” dome, 20” wide door with a 12.6” high door 9” vent/Flew
    The igloo shaped oven will be surrounded by the Ceramic bricks and then back filled with perlite cement mixture, The finished shape will be a tall 6’ Diameter cylinder by 8’ tall the entire unit will be covered in broken sea glass and polished, (done this work before it’s a pain)

    ok now questions
    Has anyone used full bricks, couldn’t find any post on the subject.
    will one layer of k-26 ceramic bricks be enough for the floor insulation? Or do I have to place them on their side for a 4.5” insulation?
    Does anyone know the R Rating of k-26 bricks per inch”
    Is the opening too wide at 20”
    Is my math right or can the opening be taller?
    Can I thin set glass tile to ceramic bricks or do I need a stucco the exterior also
    This will be set on the 5th floor of my building, it’s a heavy concreate constructed building that was reinforced with 12” i beams, it was the old ballet school and was used as a bomb shelter, so I don’t foresee the weight being a issue. At the moment the 5th floor is open, but sometime in the future I will be add another floor and this will seal off the floor with the oven, so Im hoping to be able to vent it to the outside wall.

  • Ible
    replied
    ready to through rod and mortar.

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  • Ible
    replied
    Here is the Jack Arch I want to incorporate into the opening, has anyone done one of these? I can also can run all thread rods to joint the brick from separating, this is done to existing structures to meet seismic codes .

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  • Ible
    replied
    Ok listened..and changed a few things will use half bricks, the sheer length made the bricks too thin if I din not want a 2" mortar fill joint on the back side. but now the oven is 48" same footprint, the dome will be laid upon the pizza oven floor bricks.

    Can I use the k26 insulation brick for the entrance< I will be covering it with plate stainless anyway to avoid were and tear,

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Here is a build by an old timer called Tscarborough where he used wedges or voussoirs to fill wide gaps in an arch.

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  • mk e
    replied
    Originally posted by Ible View Post
    some bricks are easier than others, these diablos are very hard. that said I will do what it takes to make a close to perfect job, do i insulate the deck from the dome?
    Normally the dome sits directly on the deck, it doesn't have to but it sure makes things easy. They are both hot so no need to insult between them.....you want to enclose the heat, not divide it.

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  • mk e
    replied
    Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
    I went through a baker dozen of diamond wet saw blades in my build.
    Oh man.....I dont think I spent an hour sawing, 90 minutes at most.

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    Not to get off the subject too much, but not all bricks are easy to cut/saw. True, low and medium grade bricks are relatively easy to saw but super duty (which I used in my case, they were surplus from a steel mill) are not. I went through a baker dozen of diamond wet saw blades in my build.

    Back to wedges, some builders have made wedges to fill in the back side gaps. Can't comment on commercial refractory mortar since I used homebrew. But I do recall the David S says Alumina Calcified mortar flashes really fast.
    Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 09-17-2018, 03:10 PM.

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  • Ible
    replied
    some bricks are easier than others, these diablos are very hard. that said I will do what it takes to make a close to perfect job, do i insulate the deck from the dome?

    Leave a comment:


  • mk e
    replied
    I think bricks are easy to saw....mine are wedges. Each row is the same number of pieces so there is a running bond all the way up and it looks pretty nice like that....I wish I could take credit but all I did saw saw what I was told to saw, it's my brother's work.

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  • Ible
    replied
    I understand on a half brick its of no consequence as the gap isn't really that big, but Because I am using full bricks each row needs 1.5" of mortar, it seems excessive for the joint, and depending on what you read it may be too big of a joint, can I use high temp refractory clay, or is is better to just cut wedges from hole bricks? how dose it differ in the work ability, and is there a work ability difference from med grade to high grade I know High grade will have more aluminum, take higher temps and be harder once finished, but have never worked with the stuff, does it glue the bricks together well.. ie sticky, or does it just slide off and or create a low adhesion? is it gray, yellow or red? do I have a choice of color?

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  • Ible
    replied
    Im following the build of a Beech oven, Although they are a cast oven, they have a much higher thermal mass than FB or other ovens, on average they are triple the mass weighing a ton for the dome alone without facade. then again they are about 100k USD and up. fully assembled.

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  • Ible
    replied
    Thank you, I will place a few pvc threaded caps on the top of the dome for filling,

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  • UtahBeehiver
    replied
    A lot of builders who have enclosures on their ovens have just poured dry perlite or vermculite over the ovens. If possible you should have some type of access to add more in case of settling. Either product has almost zero K values and relatively cheap. You might want to do a test on the K26 to see how well tiles/glass adhere to the brick.

    Just saying, full brick walls will take a lot longer to heat and use substantially more fuel but once hot will stay hot for a long time. So if you are going to be in production mode then high amount of thermal mass is good but if not, one can easily get several days of cooking with half brick dome walls with the proposed insulation.

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  • Ible
    replied
    are you saying just uses loose perlite? inbetween the dome and the k-26 brickwork. it would be easier and faster and should work....

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