Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

[biondoli]

I'd like to open for discussion the 2 different ways we have all built the dome in relation to the arch.
I put 2 pictures, which shows better what I mean, from Robert and Ken Picasa's album.
Robert phisically hanged the dome on the arch, while Ken's dome just pushes against it, like mine.
I was planning to hang the dome to the arch (I think it is the right way) but when I was there I couldn't.
How can we suggest future builders to end up and be able to hang the dome to the arch?
Is this the correct way?
Should the row (5 or 6) became a little oval in order to overhang the arch?
How did you do it?
Has this subject ever discussed on the forum?

[PizzaJNKY]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

Carlo, I actually tried to copy Ken's work, but couldn't. By accident, it ended up hanging on the arch. I guess it turned out to be a good accident cause Robert's oven is really nice also. I'm not really sure if one way is more correct than the other. My transition point did become oval, and I tried like heck to keep it round.

[Ken524]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

I was actually planning the "Hanging on the arch" concept. Just didn't happen when I got there . It seems to be holding up ok.

I did have a couple loose bricks in the arch during curing and settling. Those were repaired with that black fireplace repair goop that comes in the plastic tub from Lowe's/Home Depot. Worked really well.

[mine]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

My oven is probably like most, way behind schedule.
Will probably do the insulating layer this weekend or next. The plan is to make a full dome of catenary cross section up past the calculated opening of the vent arch and then cut a slice off to make the opening. I will waste several bricks that way but my dome and arch will be unique structures tied together by a "bond line" and everything hangs on its own. I am also thinking about a 1in. thick insulating brick layer at this "bond line" to isolate the oven dome from the vent/landing area.
????

[gjbingham]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

This is not perfect science. If you went to Italy and watched masons build ovens all over the country, I'm pretty shyre that you would find that it is done differently in different regions.

Why do you believe that hanging is the correct way to attach to the arch? It sounds reasonable to let gravity help hold the oven together in that area. That is what I did with my decorative arch outside my entryway arch. I certainly can't say for sure that that is the correct way to go.

I wouldn't get to "hung up" about it. If you can capture an edge and make it hang, do so. If not, no worries. Use lots of mortar.

[Frances]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

I must say, all the discussions and pictures of this part of an oven that have appeared just since I built mine are great!

I'd guess that it doesn't matter much which way you go, hangig or pushing on the arch... but its good to know that once you get that far and it maybe doesn't quite work out the way you thought, you still have various other options to tie in the arch (other than starting over... )

[biondoli]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

George,
I have been in Italy, actually I am Italian and lived all my life there, only few years I am here. You are right, everybody there would build the oven in his own way, they work but it does not mean that all are built as they should and not all are efficient as they should.
I thought scope of this forum would be to share, improve and help others.
In fact in my post I mentioned that I want to open a discussion as it would be important for future builders to know upfront that they may end up with 2 different results, and facts have demonstrated that both work.
If I had known better I would have chosen to hang up on the arch as this is the main scope of a supporting arch, otherwise I would have build as many did with an external arch and an iron bar to support the dome as the original plan explains which is easier to realize.
Hope this clarify

[gjbingham]

Re: Dome hanging on the arch or pushing on it?

Carlo,
I'm sure you know better, having done it yourself. It seems that the brick rows would be locked in as they meet the arch - assuming a tight fit, whether or not they hung on top. Perhaps not.
That was one of the reasons I used an angle iron. The arch transition looked too complicated.