Pizza History in the Hammer Continues

[Baza]

Hello All - from Hamilton, Ontario!
I am in remarkable company in this forum and am grateful for all the learning to date (that got a shovel in the ground) and the learning to come (as I ask newbie question after question!). I'm pleased to announce that my 42" Pompeii build is underway and I've learned so much already. Following Dino's build for inspiration and the wisdom of all here - I feel I can do this - and I want to share the journey.

HISTORY: I live with my 87-year old father-in law for now (partner and I in transition) and, after the war, came here from Italy to seek a better life. He started the FIRST pizza joint in S. Ontario in 1954 - towing an oven from Buffalo NY to Hamilton as one wasn't available here in '54. He began Valerio's Pizza and it became the first and last word in pies. He then expanded to a banquet hall and his name is synonymous with the best pizza's and many weddings in our city. He never had his own 'Forno' ... until now - and we are both excited to continue the tradition together.

I have begun the dig and completed the foundation.
Given we have a 48" frost line in places - I had to go deep! However, we have FEW landscapers that will help with a dig in our area as we are clay and bedrock that has broken many an auger! So - my partner and I hand bombed the first foot - then called in a hand auger to loosen the rest for a dig of clay. He got down about 3' and hit bedrock - so we trenched the dig, laid the concrete footer (originally to be 6" thick - was actually 8 - 10" in the pour). Tied bent 1/2" rebar in to the footing to exit the slab when done so the first course of block would be pinned footing, through wall foundation, slab and block.

As soon as I figure out how to work the camera icon ... I will upload photos of the process! (sorry!)

Hope everyone is well
Barry

[Baza]

Ok! Got the photos working (I think) and so begins the tale (and need for guidance!)

We picked a spot at the back of the yard we will eventually re-develop - but had to move a tree first (that little evergreen was the first thing to go ... get moved).
Then the digging and digging and digging! We got down 1 foot, then dug the trench down around it to the bedrock - roughly 30" - hoping this will save us from the frost.
Dropped the rebar in and bent the bottoms to tie the footing through the walls to the first course of block to pin it all together.

[Baza]

Right - with the rebar in place and the frame holding it together, we are ready to pour the footing over the bedrock we reached after some tough digging through clay.
That was a LONG day with 28 bags of concrete (30kgs each) setting the footing - rained a bit too - so muddy, messy and great!
Footing wound up being deeper than I thought - but more concrete (I'm thinking) is a good thing!

Here's some photos ... (I thought it helpful to post these as there may be others - as I noticed in this forum - who are talking about proper frost line support and digs - this one seems to work out based on many discussions with contractors and masons I was able to speak with ... hoping it helps others!) ...

[Baza]

Now the fun REALLY began - we were encouraged to form the walls with Rigid styrofoam for both insulation of the walls from the elements AND any bumps, roots, rocks, etc that could work its way into the wall pour and crack it - so we did - but being a flimsy material - it needed bolstering. So - I built a wooden frame for the outside of the outer styro box and taped it up - then built smaller styro box to go around inner earth block creating a form for a wall that was the width of a block (dropped blocks to bottom for support against bowing and strength). Then, like a Russian doll, put each bock in the trench one by one and tied off loads of rebar around and in it. Filled middle with 3/4" stone and closed it so I could do the wall and slab in one pour (with lots of friend help!!) - worked pretty good!

Have a look ...

[Baza]

Ok - the last few photos before I need some advice - styro boxes in place, more rebar on top ... and the pour! Took advice to sweep the top and edge it - BIG mistake - given it won't be seen and it makes an uneven surface to dry lay block!! DUH! Should have insisted a "no"! Oh well, will mortar first course to stablize it given the pour wound up perfectly level! Woohoo!!

QUESTION: now that the blocks are ready to go, I know I'm going to mortar the first course at the base to stop wobbles and whatnot, but will not be mortaring upright joints - I am putting an inner wall "H" fashion through the middle (thinking it will add strength - just the paranoid in me) - I note that the inner wall does not touch the inside of the outer wall - is that ok - should it tie in? Is a 1/4" gap on either side ok to build that wall straight up - or should it be flush against the inside block?

Am I making sense?

Thanks for any help anyone can give!
Barry

[Baza]

Hello all!
Put a question to the Getting Started thread about this - worried about my slightly out of line stand ...
As per above - the slab finish created an uneven surface, so elected today to mortar first course down to stabilize and level it - seems to have worked despite it being my first shot at mortar and block! Mortar got a bit dry with my lengthy effort, but stayed pliable enough to work.

You can see in the pics that the right side bowed in a bit (Pic 1) and the dry stack moving forward did not line up on the wood storage side (pic 2). Im worried this will be a thing ... or not? just cladded over and slight adjustments up the wall will do the trick ... maybe? (GULP! )

I'm hoping, with 90 degree corners and perfectly level tops this will work out in the end - but some insight is most welcome!

Take care
Barry

[UtahBeehiver]

I am responding here so not to hijack other builds. I suggest you place your build progress in Pompeii Oven Construction it gets the most traffic.

There a few key items for a correctly designed IT
1. The pivot point needs to be at floor elevation and at the center of the dome.
2. From the pivot point along the rod to the "L" bracket must intersect the halfway point on the dome brick, ie if the brick is 2.5" thick then the center of the rod to pivot point must intersect at 1.25"
3. Rod should be adjustable in length, these ovens are not a precise science and get out of wack (round) for one reason or another. An adj. IT allows you to make corrections.

There are several non weld ITs out on the blog you just need to seach for them

Dry cutting bricks does pose a heath issue for you, the yard, your neigbors. The cutting produces a lot of silica dust with should not be inhaled.

[Baza]

UtahBeehiver - thank you so much - I'll keep posting the build here so as I flail about in my efforts - good folks like you may come to the rescue!
Thanks again for the Top 3 basics of IT building. You've been very helpful to many re: this and I appreciate these principles reinforced here.
I'll seek something non-weld with these principles in mind - particularly the adjustable piece given the potential for droop.P3 StoakerChach were very helpful here as well.

With the pivot point at the floor - I gather there is an assumption that whatever one is using to anchor the rod (castor, eye or fork bolts, etc) they sit a bit off the cooking floor to some degree. So the length of the rod to the L-bracket takes in this height above the cooking floor (eg. if a 21" height hemispherical dome was the intent - a fork bolt that sits in a piece of wood and about an inch off the cooking floor would require a 20" rod = 21" in total ... of course, adjustable ... yes?)

Again - many thanks - really don't want to get this wrong.
Both humble and grateful
Barry

[Baza]

Well, it was back to the slab after posting my bow issue above.
After some great advice from the amazing builders here - I elected to re-string the first course and check where it went out of whack ... the last 3 blocks on the bowed side is where the problem occurred. So, chiseled those blocks out, chiseled out the mortar from the slab and blocks and re-layed the blocks in fresh mortar, along the string line and squared it to the other side of the opening. After all said and done, better to be correct now than sorry later (despite sore muscles!

So - continued the dry-stack, cut the notches for the angle-iron, cut rebar to place in cavities and filled with concrete (16 bags) and left over gravel in others.
I'm happy with the result - pics below show the pull up of the mistake(s) and the rebuild ... and some help from Quality Control!

Will form hearth tomorrow - pour the next day! Wooo!! Enjoying working above ground for a change!
Barry

[Chach]

UtahBeehiver - thank you so much - I'll keep posting the build here so as I flail about in my efforts - good folks like you may come to the rescue!
Thanks again for the Top 3 basics of IT building. You've been very helpful to many re: this and I appreciate these principles reinforced here.
I'll seek something non-weld with these principles in mind - particularly the adjustable piece given the potential for droop.P3 StoakerChach were very helpful here as well.

With the pivot point at the floor - I gather there is an assumption that whatever one is using to anchor the rod (castor, eye or fork bolts, etc) they sit a bit off the cooking floor to some degree. So the length of the rod to the L-bracket takes in this height above the cooking floor (eg. if a 21" height hemispherical dome was the intent - a fork bolt that sits in a piece of wood and about an inch off the cooking floor would require a 20" rod = 21" in total ... of course, adjustable ... yes?)

Again - many thanks - really don't want to get this wrong.
Both humble and grateful
Barry

My pivot point was at floor level and not sitting above so I did not jave to adjust the IT at all. I used a spade bit to recess the fork part down a touch and that made my pivot even with the floor.

Ricky

[Chach]

The height of my oven being 18" tall as my oven is 36" in diameter I think works fine and the fuel usage isn't bad. Im very happy with it.

[UtahBeehiver]

Many builders have mounted the IT on a wooden block the size of the brick, you can lower the pivot point to floor elevation by adjusting the thickness of the wood block.. You don't have to be at floor level you just have to account for the offset distance off the floor and adjust down accordingly. This is one of the reason an adjustable IT is preferred. IT are needed to do what is called a tapered inner arch, which I recommend since it makes tying the dome to the arch must easier. Adjustable IT helps with minimizing the "dreaded droop" over the arch.

[Baza]

Chach - wow! just looked through your build - remarkable! The entirety of the structure is amazing - and love the roof! You were very creative with it all! Back to my IT fears - your IT makes sense seeing it and looking at what pivot-at-floor-level looks like - excellent! A wooden version is in my future! Glad to read you're happy with your oven's performance (the food looks brilliant - so clearly - hemispherical is just fine.

Couple of questions (again):
1. When you cut your brick - it looks like you didn't taper or bevel until higher courses - is that correct?
2. Your arch looks like untapered (but clearly cut for internal/external dome shapes) full bricks on their side, letting the mortar do the angling, not the cuts - yes?

Great results Ricky!
Barry

[Chach]

Chach - wow! just looked through your build - remarkable! The entirety of the structure is amazing - and love the roof! You were very creative with it all! Back to my IT fears - your IT makes sense seeing it and looking at what pivot-at-floor-level looks like - excellent! A wooden version is in my future! Glad to read you're happy with your oven's performance (the food looks brilliant - so clearly - hemispherical is just fine.

Couple of questions (again):
1. When you cut your brick - it looks like you didn't taper or bevel until higher courses - is that correct?
2. Your arch looks like untapered (but clearly cut for internal/external dome shapes) full bricks on their side, letting the mortar do the angling, not the cuts - yes?

Great results Ricky!
Barry

I did not have to bevel until the 3rd course and i just beveled the front edge not the whole side. I also did not taper UtahBeehiver and RandyJ gave me the advice of its not necessary. Randy said he won't taper and full bevel on his next oven. Yes my arch is only cut for the dome shape a taperes inner cut. Yes full brick on their side mortar does the angling. If I were to do it again I probably would cut the brick and taper the sides instead of the mortar doing it. Not necessary but I should have at least tried it. I admit I took the easy eay out on that one.

Thanks for the kind words.

Ricky

[Baza]

Chach Thank you so much for the ready answers to my questions! Honestly, even at my stage - I don't think there is any easy way out of anything in this!! HA!
I've seen both Utah and Randy's comments on that and am torn given their great results doing so, Chipster's jig and dejayoh's spreadsheet to give angles ... vs. simple 1/2 cuts mortared up large on the outside.

I have a few hurdles to go before determining that ... thanks again!
Barry