Help, need advice!!

[berryst]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Just do it ....and send us some pics...and make room at the table ....just wonder who's going to show up!!! Best of luck.

[SpringJim]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Yeah, don't sweat it....those bricks will work fine....add a little homebrew mortar and you can get fired up in no time!

Good luck...post pics of your build!

[Wiley]

Re: Help, need advice!!

From what you have found out I would agree with Ken, and use the bricks available and adjust the plans as needed.

Do keep us posted w/ pictures etc. Did they have any recommendations for cement/mortar? If so I would try it as well. It's hard to argue with success and if they have ovens using these bricks that are working they are doing something right even if it seems different from what is being done elsewhere.

Bests,
Wiley

[Ken524]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Mark,

It sounds like those bricks will work fine. I would think custom bricks could get pricey. I'd build the oven with the ones they have in stock. Variations in brick size won't hurt anything. Go for it!

[mark4604]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Ok so I called the brick maker today with in depth questions and they assured me that those are fire bricks they are made separately from the other construction bricks and support very high temps. I explained the temps involved with a wood fired oven and they were very aware of the process and said those bricks are used in other wood ovens. She seemed very knowledgeable about wood ovens and even offered me to go to check there personal oven constructed from those exact bricks so I feel pretty comfortable with that now. I asked her if it was possible to make custom bricks for me since the ones I see here are different sizes from what I see everyone else using. Can anyone suggest the dimensions I should be using so I can place an order? Also if there willing to make a custom batch should I ask them to include any special ingredients?

[nissanneill]

Re: Help, need advice!!

You are right there in building an oven with anything.
Herein outback Australia, where the pioneers to an area such as small opal or gem mining, outpost stations on some of our larger stock properties (1,500,000 acres) even use 44 gallon drums for hot water services and ovens. The 'donkey' as it is commonly known is a 44 drum laying on its side over a fire bed covered in at least a foot of dirt, with a water supply into the bottom of the end and the hot water supply out from the top. Light the fire once a day and you have 44 gallons (200 litres) of hot water for 24 hours.
Use the same principle but cut a half of the top out and you have an oven. I'm not saying it is a pizza oven but good enough to cook plenty of basic foods in. You only need to wash out all the remaining oil/fuel but one fire in it will clean it out well.
Hell, I've seen a road grader driver maintaining roads way out back, cook his breakfast of eggs and bacon on a shovel over his campfire. It worked a treat - a small barbeque plate!

Neill

[berryst]

Re: Help, need advice!!

This just sounds like a fun project. I have searched the Internet ...heck they even build ovens out of mud and straw for generations. That said, I don't really recommend it How about this. Try to cover the cooking surface with splits. These are i/2 the thickness of regular brick. This will keep the hottest part of the fire off of the local brick. They are not mortared in and thus easy to replace. I put a layer of splits over my nasty used brick.
You can find then pretty cheap if you Google fire bricks ...lots cheaper than WA State. Shipping will be costly but fire bricks are lighter than regular bricks

Is there a craigslist in D.R. Perhaps you can post a firebrick wanted add and see what turns up. Maybe a combined order with some other folks. What bout your other oven? Maybe you can stuff some brick in the back just to see how they cycle.

Having the first wood fired oven may be really good for business as people "discover" you....and some damn fine pizza

You can see what I am doing ....just search "berryst" and look under the "Journey is the destination..."

[nissanneill]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Hi again Mark,
I will refer to Rusell Jeavons oven and his book.

"My outside oven has two layers of clay pavers. The first layer is a base and gives extra mass, and the second forms the sole of the oven. This way it is easy to replace damaged parts of the flor because the bricks are thinner and easier to cut. I also found that pavers had a smoother tiops than house bricks I used for the dome."

The pavers that he is referring to are 2" thick and would have been fired at around 1200˚C. So they are very stable until they reach or exceed their initial firing temperature which would be double that of your oven.
As Russell says,
"If you want to spend money for no good reason, use fire bricks if you must, but they are designed for kilns, not ovens. A brick is fired at 1100˚C and is stable until it reaches that temperature".

Neill

[Wiley]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Mark, I didn't use bricks in the construction of my dome (I'm the "Steel Dome Oven" thread) so I don't know what to advise regarding brick size. As to what you should have him include in the bricks should he be willing to try a special order: I would suggest you try a google search of "grog" which is ground up previously fired stuff. Seattle Pottery Supply has some info on their site. I remember that from a project I was involved in regarding slumped glass molds a few years ago. You would be looking for percentage added.

What the "perfect" proportion for your bricks would be I haven't a clue. How often does he fire? If it is often and if he is close by you could spend some time (learning a new trade :-) and make a test series of bricks with 25 % grog and 50 % grog and then build a quick stacked brick "test" oven (somewhere online I saw someone who had a five minute oven of stacked bricks, wasn't pretty but seemed to work). Give it a good harsh heat up and see how the bricks do. Won't tell you long term durability but should give you some idea of short term life. You haven't mentioned how much he wants for the bricks. If cheap build three test WFOs (what he offers, a 25 % and a 50%) if they are expensive then build one with three different bricks. Bash and trash, give it years of abuse and accident in a short time. R&D (research and development) isn't always cheap but it can be fun. It would be terrible to spend the time, money and effort building an oven that doesn't do what you need it to do. Venture the lost time doing some R&D and feel good about the project. Oh, and if he only fires every couple of months buy some bricks and see how well the ones he has work. You might get lucky and find that the local clay works just fine. Oh, and I try to practice what I preach... I built my dome and had a test fire(s) before even starting my WFO stand.

Check out the thread about the people who tried building a clay oven without properly drying their bricks. Blew up and thing is they knew better, but got in a hurry. Haste makes waste and all that. Wear eye protection!

Oh and one last thought... is there a local potter? if so see what he's using for his kiln, he might be a valuable lead.

Bests,
Wiley

[mark4604]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Oh I forgot to mention if he is willing to make me custom bricks what should I be asking him to make exactly? Is it normal that he would carry silica or is that something I will need to provide? Also I noticed the bricks I have are a different size than the firebricks in the states, what dimensions should I ask him to make the bricks assuming he will make some for me?

[mark4604]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Wow I am learning a lot from this site and fast. Does anyone have any ideas about what I should use as a floor in the oven because the plans said it?s not good to use red fire brick for the floor? I will be visiting the brick maker tomorrow can anyone suggest a list of the most important questions to ask him? I would try to ask for a materials data sheet but they don?t exactly keep those types of documents here. So when I see his facility what should I be asking about and looking for? I really want to be careful about buying these bricks as I heard those types of bricks take longer to heat up and I really don?t want heat loss or any time of heating problem that will cause Inconsistency in my cooking and food quality regarding my restaurant.

[dmun]

Re: Help, need advice!!

It's hard to tell from the pictures. They are clearly handmade bricks, and hence they look quite different from the bricks in the states. Proper firebricks have a percentage of alumina, instead of silica. The ones that we are used to have a certain look, like speckled when they are diamond cut. Any chance of getting a material data sheet from your supplier? Maybe a silly question, I know.

[nissanneill]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Hi Mark,
I appreciate your problem with your brick supplier and choice, particularly for your Restaurant.
I know I am going against some of the other members (sorry Ken and other devotees), but experience says to explore a suitable high fire house brick. Check out one of the postings that I placed for Russell Jeavons Restaurant, here in South Australia. He has 2 ovens built with 50 year old solid house bricks and has been using his ovens commercially for the past 5 years and NO CRACKING NOR SPALLING!!!!See:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f27/...outh-1930.html


Check out the photos in the last permalink. I have put one in this reply. He cooks around 100 pizzas a night.
Russel also has published a book on how to build a wood fired pizza oven and has built 5 I think.
With that said, you still have to ensure that the bricks you select and use have been fired at a higher temperature than what you will be using.
We also have a firebrick manufacturer in the Adelaide hills and they sell 10 times as many solid 4" pavers that are manufactured at 1200˚C for people building ovens.
I leave it to you.
Sorry if I have confused you or caused you concern.

Neill

[mark4604]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Anyone out there? everyone must be enjoying their pizza except me of course!!! hahaha

[mark4604]

Re: Help, need advice!!

Here are the bricks in question; I have also included a picture of Constanza. Thanks for all your help guys!