Refrax vs Heatstop 50

[bturton]

Hey Guys!
Thanks for the fantastic job you do. All the information and shared experience is really helpful.

We poured our slab and foundation this week. Our hope is to do the oven as well as an outdoor fireplace by and by. To that end we did the whole foundation and slab work at one time. 13 yards of concrete which was poured from the mixer truck and then into the bucket of our front end loader and shuttled a bucket at a time to the site. I'll post some pictures as soon as I get home in the daylight hours. Our days now feel like they are about 30minutes long. The plan currently is to try to have the table ready so we can work on the dome over the Thanksgiving break. So now for the question (thanks for your patience) It seems to be difficult to get the Refrax mortar. We're in Georgia and there's not really any place to get it. We talked to a dealer in Florida and were told they didn't have it in stock and weren't sure when it would be in. And then there would still be the cost of shipping... ( still waiting for the question, huh?) In one of the threads I saw Heatstop 50 mentioned as being an option. We are able to locate that product. Also I guess mixing our own is an option. What are the tradeoffs? How much is the use of any of these options going to effect the function of the oven in the end?

Thanks a bunch!

[Les]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

I started off using heatstop, but when I saw how fast I was burning through it, I started mixing my own. I saved the rest for the arch. The home mix seems to be working just fine.

Les...

[RTflorida]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

I used HS50, I found it easy to work with and hard setting. I having nothing eles to compare it to (either the Refrax/Refmix or the fireclay homebrew). HS50 can be pricey...I found the price to range from $55 a bag to over $100, luckily the masonry supplier who also had the cheapest firebricks also had the cheapest HS50....one stop shopping for me.

RT

[skoolpsyk]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

note that we tried to order the refmix from FB and they told us they are out of stock until mid-december. we ordered two bags of hs50 since we couldn't find anyone who had it in stock and it came to over $100 a bag with shipping...

[Bandrasco]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Hello BTurton,

I am currently using Heatstop-50 and it's very easy to work with. I had a bad experience at first but it wasn't product related; it had been exposed to moisture while at the distributor and cured in the bag rendering it useless. The mfg was great to work with and they took care of the problem and offered a lot of customer support as needed. Unfortunately Refmix is not available in my local area. I was told they were 22lb bags and shipping along with product would make it about 30% more than Heatstop-50. Being the impatient person I am I went with local supply.

Good luck; it sounds like you're off to a great start.

Bill

[bturton]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Thanks for the help and the good wishes! We're going with the Heatstop!

Bonita

[exceloven]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Has anyone had a problem with mixing their own mortar, as far as adheshion or workability?

[mfiore]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

I tried mixing my own (briefly) when I was out of HeatStop. For me, it did not adhere as well as the heatstop. I think it was more related to my complete inexperience with mortar. For a novice, the Heatstop is great. It never let me down. Others with more experience have had no problems mixing their own. I likely just didn't know what I was doing. I think if you have experience with mortar, it seems to work. If not, you will have no problems with Heat stop or Refmix.

[christo]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

I used both Refmix (formerly Refrax) and HS on my oven.

I preferred Refmx from a workability standpoint but have seen no problems with HS, either.

In my experience both are good.

I did not try any homebrew mixes.

Christo

[Les]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Retract any comments that I had

[tomtom]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

I have completed my dome but still need to add some mortar into the gaps of the back of the bricks. I have been using a refractory mortar to mortar the dome brick. The refractory mortar cures differently than regular mortar. It drys from the outside - in. You are actually only supposed to use a very thin layer to mortar bricks. It is not meant to be used to fill gaps. But when it fully drys it is very hard. My problem here is now that it is cool outside the refractory mortar won't dry. It will get crusty on the outside but you can stick a screwdriver right thru it. Has anyone else experienced this with the mortar they are using? Is there a brand or type of mortar that I can use to fill the gaps of the bricks towards the outside of the dome that will dry in a resonable amount of time?
Thanks
Tom

[Les]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Tom - I highly recommend buying the Ref mix from FB. The stuff will dry and it is hard as steel.

Les...

[tomtom]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Thanks Les, Appreciate the advice. I called the manufacturer and they have another product that is specific for filling voids like the ones I have. They are 1/2 hour from where I live so it was convienent.
Tom

[geisen]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

Reviving an old thread.
I was trying to find a local San Diego source for refractory Mortar, blanket and Insullation Boards. Found a local distributor (squiresbelt.com) for equivalents to all three, though only the mortar is going to save me any money.

Sent the FB spec sheets to HW and got the following response (my price comparison in parens):

"The Harbison-Walker Refractory equivalent to the RefMix mortar is MORTAR MIX 413 (50lbs = $35; vs. FB 22lbs = $35). As you continue to search for alternate refractory sources for this material, keep in mind that it is important that a high temperature mortar used for outdoor ovens exposed to weather must be hydraulically bonded. MORTAR MIX 413 was developed for this application. Most refractory mortars are alkali silicate-bonded and have binder systems that are somewhat water soluble. This causes them to degrade with extended service in outdoor ovens.

The FB Board that Forno Bravo recommends can be replaced with H-W's INSBOARD 2300 HD. These products are nearly identical. (2'x3'x2" = $105; vs FB Board for $70)

The FB Blanket substitute is H-W's INSWOOL-HP BLANKET 8# ($90 vs FB $75). This product has longer fibers than most refractory ceramic fiber blankets, giving it more durability.

I've attached data sheets for all of these products.

So I ordered the Insulation Boards (3) and Blankets (3) from Forno Bravo and got a 50lb bag of HW Refrac Mortar from Squires Belt.

I am starting with 3 bags of REFRAX I got from member JWNorris. I'll provide later feedback on how they compare.

[ttriche]

Re: Refrax vs Heatstop 50

That's fantastic! There is a friendly family-owned HWR distributor in Santa Fe Springs that could order the HW Mortar Mix 413 with a 2-3 day lead time (same as for my Kast-o-Lite). When it comes in I can just pick it up in my truck. This is great since I can save the Refrax for the toughest parts of the dome and opening arch joints where I can't get a perfect dry fit using the 10" saw. I was worried about the cost adding up if I had to ship lots of Refrax.

Thank you for saving me a bunch of money! I did get a bag of Refrax for the opening arch so I'll compare and let people know in a few months what held up better :-)