Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

[Fio]

I have seen some on this forum use refractory concrete for castings and plugs (i.e. Kiwi Pete). I would like to do the same thing, but I cannot locate a source of refractory concrete or calcium aluminate cement.

I live in a fairly large metro area (Washington, DC) and I'm surprised I cannot find refractory concrete anywhere.

I DO have a source for fireclay and Heatstop refractory mortar. Can I just add some aggregate to the refractory mortar and use it in place of refractory concrete?

If not, where the heck can I get some refractory concrete?

Thanks,

- Fio

[DrakeRemoray]

I am planning on using a catsable product from a company called Pryor Giggey.

The product I decided on is called Econolite, it is an insulating castable good to 1600 deg F. They have one called Insulcast which is good to 2600 deg f but it was substantially more expensive. I am planning on using it for the vent area.

Here is a list of distributors, maybe call one of them and find out if they distribute to a retailer in your area.

Pryor Giggey Refractory Distributors

Looks like they take orders online as well...

Hope that helps.

Drake

[enz]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Go to ANH Refractories and see if they have a local distributor in your area. I sourced my Mizzou Castable Plus from them.

Be careful, if you are casting any part of the oven shell, that you do not get the more common insulative refractory castible. For vents and flus pretty much all of them will work.

The Mizzou was $0.66/lb for comparison.

Enz

[matt]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Enz,
A lot of refractory materials: ceramic fibre insulation, calcium silicate board, high-temp adhesives, and castable concrete are available from McMaster Carr. They are happy to sell small quantities to individuals. Even if you don't buy from them, their web page is an outstanding resource for specifications and to get an idea "what's out there". Give it a try.

Matt

[diy]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Refractory concrete you can buy from Vitcas Ltd

[diy]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

All refractories for build your own pizza oven are available from Vitcas in Bristol.

[jeebussss]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

you can also try mt savage heatcrete 24 es...its what im using...ands its in Maryland

[RTflorida]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Seb, you responded to two posts from over two years ago. It is possible the suppliers that were listed are no longer in business.

Try a Google search of refractory suppliers in Colorado. You can probably find refractory mortar (such as Heatstop 50) at your local masonry supplier (brickyard).

RT

[dmun]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

A quick web search shows that this product was made by A. P. Green, which was absorbed by Harbison Walker, now doing business as ANH refractories. A quick call to ANH will tell you if they still make the product, or what the ANH equivalent is.

Remember: In the US, castable refractory is FAR more expensive than firebrick.

[altamont]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

In the local Yellow Pages (in the USA) check a number of categories:
- Refractories
- Fire Brick
- Boilers-New & Used
- Heating Equipment & Systems-Repairing
- Heating Contractors & Specialties
Also, if you have a home heating furnace (oil or gas), contact the people that normally service it for you. They might know a good company to contact locally (or relatively close by). That is how I found the supplier for my air-setting mortar and cal-sil board (1 supplier), and #1 Arch Super Duty brick and a torn bag of high-strength castable refractory (another supplier). The later was not an insulating castable and I used it in forming the very top of my dome (last 'row' and the plug).
I did a web search for "General Insulation" and discovered a local warehouse and got a good price on Mineral Wool blanket for insulating the dome.

[dmun]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

"River gravel or crushed fire bricks Sand
Calcium Aluminate cement. (if available in different grades choose the better one)
Lime (lime is usually cheaper, about 80% of the cement price)
Water
You can add into this mix a little standard Fireclay if you like.

Mixture: (parts ratio is 3 x 2 x 2 x 0.5, plus water)
3 shovels of the gravel or crushed firebricks
2 shovels of sand
2 shovels of the cement
half shovel of lime
This amount will require approximately 6-7 liters of water to mix the concrete"

What do you think? It seems to be the same as the Calcium Aluminate fireclay formula from FB.

There is very little depth of experience with refractory concrete on this board. In the US, firebrick is a much cheaper, and much better product. Most of the refractory concrete (castable) experience around here is Australian, as firebricks are ruinously expensive down under. Calcium aluminate products have the reputation of being difficult to work with, but again, I only know this second or third hand.

In any event, do a search for castable refractories, and remember that most of the products you read about are going to be different brand names, and have different properties, than the ones you can buy locally. And by all means keep us posted, so your experience will be available to other builders.

[jgestner]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Hi Gang
I am considering A WFO build this summer or next. I am interested in the idea of a self cast inside or outside of some readily available form or make my own form. The first resonably priced refractory cement I have seen is this "KS-4 PLUS
All prices based on 55 lb bags $38.55
A dense, strong general purpose castable refractory for use at temperatures up to 2550?F. It combines high strength with abrasion resistance. "
I saw it at Empire Refractory Specialists Shopping Cart

Would any of you have any thoughts about it or it's suitability for casting an oven?
I still plan to build the base with firebrick but if the dome works out well enough maybe the floor could be cast with this same material.

Thanks for any insights some of you might have.

John in Merrill, WI

[david s]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

I would not use lime in a mix with calcium aluminate cement. Most manufacturers recommend that alkaline materials (lime) are incompatible with cal. alum. cement. It also has the characteristic of making the brew set VERY quickly, which is annoying if you"ve mixed up a fair quantity. Proprietry mixes are prbably better to use as they contain aggregates that are stable and won't give you too much problems with excessive expansion. They also contain fibres that burn out at low temps. creating mini tubes for moisture to escape from during curing fires, to prevent cracking.
Dense castable refractories are way stronger than insulating ones and should be used in areas wher you want thermal mass or strength. Stainless steel needles are the recommended reinforcing for castables.

[jgestner]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Hi David
Thanks for the quick response. I probably didn't look hard at the site I posted above, but in my quick look didn't see lime listed in this KS-4 Plus product.
Here though the same site shows a range of prices and products, some that do list 60% alumina. Empire Refractory Specialists Shopping Cart I know I read here that someone was using the MIZZOU product they list also.

John

[jbriggs]

Re: Where can I buy refractory CONCRETE?

Trust me......there ou are peo\\arfe lots of suppliers out there that your probably not aware of. It takes a lote of research and phone calls to accomplish this. Start with a web search for castable refractories with your city listed. It will likely yield suppliers within a few hundred miles, but a phone call and a few conversations and you might find that they have a small distribution warehouse in your area. Might not be the exact product that you wanted but likely a very suitable alternate ( and I DO NOT believe that one is better than the other similar to groceries....name brand v/s proprietary, smaller company).

I was able to find an ANH company
nearby that had a warehouse within 20 miles that had a castable for $25/55lb bag, meaning I can cast a 40 " dome 3" thick for about $400.

Use your resources!!