Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

[asudavew]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Cracks happen.
Just take your time on curing, and you will be cooking pizzas in no time.

No guarantees with WFOs... they all behave differently.
But, trust me, you will be fine and enjoying pizza very soon.

I had a brick fall out of my inner arch.. no biggie.. I figured out a solution...
enjoy the journey and then enjoy the food.

Pizza, pitas, bread, turkeys, chicken, steak, brisket.... they all meet their doom in a WFO

Have fun and don't worry about the cracks!
They are just cracks... and if a dome was going to collapse because of cracks.. trust me.. it would be mine.

What you should worry about is making 10 lbs of dough!

Great build BTW! Very nice.!

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Shay,
Are you insinuating that I am taking too long to build?

Great news. After the large crack in the outer arch, the small vent and some puffs out the door of smoke, and a big loud crack in the flue on the last firing, I am happy to report that all three problems are abated!!!!!

The crack in the outer arch ( which was huge, and unacceptible) I did NOTHING about it. It closed up upon cooling and I piled on 8 more courses of brick. This evening, with a 900 deg. dome temp, it did crack... but not in the same place, and not nearly so visibly.

The other side of the keystone opened up hairline, it worked its way up and to the left! I could do something about it, OR NOT! Really not a big issue at all anymore.

Secondly, the flue. Yes, upon the last firing it cracked. I did, basically NOTHING about it. I installed it with mortar, and put quite a bit of vermiculite around it, at least 12" up the flue, left and right, and behind it ( dome side) Tonights fire... the same crack opened up at the top of the flue, and you could see how it got smaller as it got closer to the level where it was covered with vermiculite. A total non- issue now.

Lastly, the draw. On the still evening, once the fire got going pretty well, I brought it most of the way up to pizza temps. The dome burned white ( creosote coming off) and the temps were around 900 in the dome. Once the temp got up there, the flames practically raged all the way up the flue. After that, nothing but clear gasses, right on up and out! Actually, I now firmly believe that the flue is just not designed to take the heat without being in a relatively calm enclosed mortar stack. Open to the air, it just is going to crack and that's all there is to it. I really don't care about the crack that I know is there. It is much smaller when it is allowed to expand throughout instead of only on the inner surface.

Over the whole dome exterior, the temp never got above about 90, the ambient temp of the day. !!!!!! I am sure I am still driving out moisture, but I am going to try a pizza this weekend.

Lars...

ps. sorry no pics.. just brought my HF temp taker ( up to 1100F.)

[blacknoir]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Oh man, when will I ever be able to use this thing???

You're ahead of me so you win..

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Shay,
I am sure I am much older than you, though, so, gosh, I had no idea we were even competing.

What type of enclosure are you planning. I presume you're going all blanket, right?

I am pretty happy with the dome shaped outer shell. I WILL post some pics, but, you know, probably not for several years... (jk) The stucco really hangs together pretty nicely and it's really amazing that a 900 degree fire can be raging behind this 90 degree exterior!



L.

[Rodneyf]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Looks good Lars! I am not too far behind you and have a week off next week to try and close the dome. I will post some pics soon but can't wait to see your first pizza and we all know the cracks won't affect the taste.

Good luck.

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Rodney,
How's it going? You must be making some great progress ( haven't see you on the forum much!!) I will try to remember to take a picture of the pizza this weekend. I need to procure a brush... and a door of some sort. It seems like the list of things to do just keeps growing, doesn't it?

It's got to be a bit cold for building these days, isn't it?

I am betting that there are as many answers to this question as there are builders, but what sort of 'floor cleaning' solutions have you all come up with. Not only mortar and ashes after the build, but also, ash brushes. I found an incredibly cheap wire brush at HF ($.25) which I attached to a wooden board and it actually ALMOST works pretty good. I am thinking maybe a wire brush isn't absolutely necessary, since some type of metal blade would be used first to move the coals.

Lars.

[mfiore]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

I think you'll want a brush of some kind when making pizza. A rake or metal blade won't get the floor "pizza clean". I use the one from the forno bravo store. It works great. I'd worry about sticking a wooden handle in a 900 degree oven.

[BurntFingers]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Look at this photo: PhotoPlog - Pizza

Notice that I lowered the entrance by attaching (drilling, tapping, bolting) a strip of 2X2 inch angle iron to the bracket holding up my chimney flue. Thereby lowering the opening of the door and disallowing any heat and smoke from heating up the archway and front of the oven. The height of the opening is in a critical ratio to the height of the inside of the dome. If it is too high then smoke and heat like, water will seek the easiest way out. By being blocked by the "smoke shelf" it is forced to go up the chimney and fresh air can come in below to feed the fire O2. Yes, it is rusted and ugly now but it is inside and away from view. I suspect it will out last me as it is 1/4" thick angle iron. Has any of you done similar adjustments?

[Rodneyf]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Hi Lars, I am still a peasant but I still count I hope! I have made some progress and will post some pics tomorrow but it is cold here right now and I am down to 1 or 2 bricks a day. I start work at 5:30am and by the time I get home and get the family duties ie: soccer, swimming, music and homework done, there is not much "me time" left. I find myself outside with a miners light on, mortaring a brick at about 8pm in about 8 degrees C. They say a slow set is a better set when it comes to mortar so I guess in these temperatures I will have a slooooooow set and a good set. I would be interested to know the ratio of cracks in ovens built with premixed mortar as against dry mixed mortar. I am using a mix that is dry and I am full of fear that I will get cracks if I have not got the water content spot on, but only the passing of time will tell.

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Rodney,
I can tell you right now, that the cracking that bothered me before has, strangely, become a non-issue. I think it has to do with the curing process.

Even if you go too fast, and cracks open up. By the time the oven is getting dried out, the cracks do not open up so bad ( or at all)

Lars.

ps. Just don't be mortaring in sub zero!!!


BurntFingers...
I am beginning to understand your FB name. Thanks for the 'smoke shelf' tip. I think I might try something like that. I think it has more to do with wood preparation for me. I get puffing, but one thing I kindof half planned was that my outer arch ( since it is actually two thicknesses of 2.25" bricks in a 4" space) protrudes a bit in front of the brick face. So, any smoke that discolors kind of hits the arch only! By cutting the wood into dry, forearm sized pieces, I get a hotter ( better drawing ) fire.

Lars.

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Hey all...

I just went to the kitchen and restaurant supply store, here... I was looking for plastic lids for some unbelievably great cookie sheets I bought. Thought it would be good for transporting pizza... ( they make 'em, but not in stock)

I ended up finding a peel and brush. Seem to be good quality. See pics.

Lars.

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Doug, you beat me to the post! But, hey, nice limestone landing you got there... but the dome covering doesn't look like you would want it in a heavy downpour.

First pizza tonight. I could have had a hotter fire. We had some mishaps. Oh well.

After all the curing fires and CRACK drama, the wood supply was pretty low. I got some soggy wood out of the forest and it seems like it just burned very low temp. Finally decided to cook before dark, but our pizzas were all stuck to the pans ( brought them out on cookie sheets -- all made up)

Well, I had my brother bring a box pizza they had on hand, just to try cooking one more thing in the oven. We cooked two handmade pizzas.

Had trouble getting one of them off the cookie sheet and onto the peel, so I just started it in the pan and as soon as I could slip it free, put it on the floor.

I really think I need that insulating door to keep temps in there. Am I noticing a lack of insulation, or does the door make all the difference (I haven't made any kind of door yet) ?

Question ... ( see above)

Okay then, here are the pics.

Lars.

[Rodneyf]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

It looks like you are having a ball! I can't wait till I get my first fire in my WFO. To tell you the truth I was driving one day 2yrs ago when I passed a pile of wood cut from a dead hardwood tree on the roadside. I had not even started my build then but I knew that that wood had a destony and that destony is getting closer each day.
Your pizza must have been so satisfying for you after all the work you have done and I hope you feel as proud as you should feel.

Well done mate!

[skemcis]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Hey Lars, right on! The only way to go now is up. Living where I do, wood is our only source of heat, so I spend considerable time in Sept/Oct cutting and splitting the driest wood I can find. Here's an observation: I have read that hardwood was the only thing to use in a WFO, so thats what I used when I started curing, and my first couple of bakes after that. Well, our supply of birch (the local hardwood) ran out and being faced with looking for a dead and down birch, I decided to try our fir and pine on hand. It works well, but must be bone dry, same as hardwood.
As for an insulated door, I cast one from a product called Cercast HT. It looks like it has ceramic fibres in it. Regardless, it is 3' thick with a 1/2" plywood back. I installed a number of deck screws in the plywood before I poured the cast. Its a heavy beast and does the job.

Ian

[Lars]

Re: Keystone CRA|CK Ugh!!!!

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the tips on wood and door. I will spend some time in the woods looking for some pieces to split. I find that if you split into about forearm sized pieces, the fire gets pretty hot, and the ashes burn more thoroughly.


Rodney,

Thanks for the post. Isn't it still incredible that we can share ideas about this crazy topic, you in Australia, Ian in BC, and me in the middle of the US! ?

I have some property up north with lots of walnut, and MANY downed trees. I think there may be destiny for some of that dry, hard wood!!!

Lars.