Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

[tfasz]

In my excitement to get started cutting bricks I realized I accidentally went with a running bond pattern rather than my planned herringbone layout. In hindsight I actually think that I might keep the running bond as I kind of like the simplicity and the look.

Any reasons that a herringbone layout would be superior? Anyone tried ovens with both and like one more than another? Seems like either would have the same problem with seams catching the peel - maybe a tad bit worse on the running bond?

Either way I'm planning on having a soldier course across the front to keep from having any small pieces fall off the front of the landing.

Have just been dry fitting things together at this point so easy to change course if there is a good reason.

Thanks for any input.

[Les]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

I did the herringbone pattern - in all honesty, I really don't think it will much matter. You pattern looks great - I would run with it. Just get them as level as you can an you will be good.

Les...

[nissanneill]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

tfasz
it makes absolutely no difference to the performance and the fact that you have laid your hearth bricks in a stretcher bond pattern but at 45˚ will make no difference than laying it parallel to the oven entrance.
The bricks I feel are better on 45˚ as there is less long edges to catch on your peels when loading and removing your pizzas.
A good grinding disc over your hearth is recommended before you finish your dome, will ensure no raised edges/corners that may give you trouble in the future.

Neill

[tfasz]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

Thanks for the input - just wanted to be sure I was not kicking myself in a few months.

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

Tfasz,,
Your brick looks great... relax and have a good time with your build... How did you insulate under the floor ? and how do you plan on insulating the dome ??

Mark

[tfasz]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

Hi Mark - Have not worked on the insulation yet. Just doing a dry fit right now for the base and working on getting the layout together for the landing/entrance. It has been rather rainy in Seattle the past month so I've been sheltering in the garage until I get a break in the weather! Who knows, that might mean March/April before I get it going outside. ;-)

My plan is to lay some insulation board (Insblock 19 maybe) on top of a concrete stand that I had built earlier this fall by a masonry contractor. For now, the layout is sitting on top of my table saw in the garage.

Been having a great time so far - can't wait to break out the mortar and actually start putting it together for real.

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

hey t,
Not trying to be overly critical,,, Is there vermicrete in the base you had built or will you double up on the insblock ?? the last hing you want is a floor that wont heat up.. and allow me to quote dmun, Insulate, Insulate, Insulate

Just trying to look ahead for you
Cheers
Mark

[tfasz]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

Was planning on using 2" of Insblok (Insblok 19 Board) underneath - from what I understand this is pretty much like FB Board but is available locally. Think this should be enough?

I'm a bit concerned about keeping it dry as there is a tall wall that my platform is built up against, so even if I throw a tarp over the whole thing the water can still run down the wall and across the countertop that the board will sit on.

Please keep the questions/feedback coming. Great to get some validation of what I'm thinking before I start building.

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

hey t,
If your putting the insblock right on top of plain uninsulated concrete I would seriously consider using 3 or 4 inches,, or throwing a layer of vermicrete on top of the concrete...Mind you im not an engineer, so this is just my humble opinion,,, the cold concrete under the insblock may just suck the heat right out of your oven,, Hopefull someone else here can chime in with their opinion, or, you can always call insblock and speak to one of their engineers.....

hope to not cause distress or confusion for you

Mark

[dmun]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

What did they make there David - looks like another chip in American industry.

For the record I have 2 1/2 inches of insblock19 in direct contact with the concrete support slab, in fact was laid down on the concrete when it was still wet. The bottom of the slab never gets hot during cooking, and only gently warms overnight (all that heat has to go somewhere). 2 1/2 inches isn't a standard thickness - I got my box as an odd lot on ebay, but I don't think two inches would be much worse.

[Les]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

I went with 4 inches of insblock19 - was it needed, I have no clue. I did it solely to get hearth to a comfortable level vs my barbecue height. I do know it did no harm. I believe James recommends 2 inches and James knows best.

Les...

[SCChris]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

I went with 2" of Calcium silicate board. The last time I measured over time at 24 hours the underside of the slab and the outside of the Calcium silicate board door were about 98F or so when the inside of the oven was 410+ degrees. At 48 hours the inside of the oven was still 230F. Since these readings I've tightened up the insulation that covers the oven and added vermiculite over everything. I'd be surprised that when I run the numbers again that I can't push this 230F point out 12 or more hours. I also feel that as I do more cooking that the underside of the slab will pass less heat as the slab dries. It would be fun to be able to cook out to 72 hours past the pizza burn, it might have me cooking more often in the WFO but I can't really say...

Chris

[Neil2]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

"I'm a bit concerned about keeping it dry "

If you go with the vermiculete, you won't have to worry about water in the insulation layer.

[tfasz]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

Was great to get the feedback from everyone on this, and that has helped my plans continue to evolve.

I ended up going exactly the direction Neil encourages and poured a 3 1/2" Perlite/cement base last weekend. Then I'm planning on putting 1" or 1 1/2" Insblock on top of that with some more perlite around the edges.

This should get the insulation board up off the stand were the water might get in, and also puts the oven floor at a more comfortable height as Les mentioned. Plus it sounds like nobody here has ever been sorry about using too much insulation so I figured I do a bit of both.

Thanks for the feedback all!

[timo]

Re: Herringbone vs. running bond (angled) floor layout

If it helps, I used the same approach to insulating the hearth: 3 1/2" perlcrete with 1" SuperIso board. The board makes leveling very easy. The temps are fine on the inside wood storage; never over 100 degrees, but I would suggest maybe 1 1/2"-2" board on top of the perlcrete, if possible. I hate the idea of much of any heat leaving the hearth via the reinforced concrete.

Good luck!