Yeast Quantity

[dalucca2003]

I have a question in regards to yeast quantity. The VPN dough recipe provided by Forno Bravo calls for 500 gr. of flour, 10 gr. of salt, 650 gr. of water and 10 gr. of ADY. My Bosch mixer can easily handle greater quantities, so I usually triple my batches. I spoke with a very informed gentlemen who stated that 30 gr. of yeast seems a bit too much.

What are others doing when they are making double or triple batches of dough? The gentlemen said everything else looked good except the yeast. He further stated he would probably use 30gr. of live yeast but you need to use less if you are using ADY. Any thoughts?

[asudavew]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Do you like your results?

If you are happy with the end product then I think it's perfect for you!

Less yeast would probably slow rise times, but it might improve flavor some.

What the heck, you may want to give it a try!

Hopefully Jim will weigh in soon. This is more of his dept.

[dmun]

Re: Yeast Quantity

I use instant yeast, not active, and I use a LOT less than that. I use 3 grams of yeast for 1000 grams of flour. (20g salt 630g water) This doubles in bulk in a warm place in about four hours, then I divide into 8 balls and cold retard in the fridge for three days (or two, or four) When I used more, it blew up way too fast, and had a disagreeable alcohol smell.

[dalucca2003]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Dmun....on that recipe for 1000 grams, what are your other measurements? I am assuming 600 - 650 gr. of water and 15 - 20 gr. of salt besides the 3 gr. of instant yeast.

[james]

Re: Yeast Quantity

I have to agree.

Time to update this. We have the web page and the .PDF. What is the consensus on how much IDY (not fast or active) should we recommend? I am thinking 3 gr to 1000 gr of flour should do it.

What do you think?

Also, are folks happy with David's 20gr of salt per 1000 gr of flour?

James

[dmun]

Re: Yeast Quantity

That's it exactly:

1000 caputo flour
3 grams IDY
20 grams table salt

mix dry ingredents in large bowl,

add 630g water,

Mix with silicone spatula until just combined. Let sit 20 minutes.

Kneed on lightly floured surface 10 or 12 folds, form into ball, the dough will be sticky, try not to use more flour than you have to. Keep the silicone spatula close to hand if it starts sticking to anything.

Put back into bowl, cover ball with no-stick sprayed cling wrap, put into warm place for about 4 hours.

Use your silicone spatula to tilt the dough out onto the counter, flatten gently, divide into 8 wedges with dough thing:



Check for ~200 gram dough weight, form into small balls, put in rubbermaid storage containers with hole poked in lid, refrigerate three days.

The pizza dough handles best when it's about an hour out of the fridge, still cool to the touch but not cold.

What's news here is cold storage does the same job as long kneeding or expensive mixers. This insight is from the no-kneed bread experience.

[james]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Here is the updated HTML page:

http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza/pizza_dough.html

[RTflorida]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Sounds like it is worth a try, I really like the idea of little kneeding. (I need a new mixer for one thing and am also recovering from shoulder surgery - with the other scheduled for next month).
My question, what if you don't have the luxury of making the dough 3 days in advance? Most of my pizza time is Sat or Sun, with a lot of traveling during the week. At best I usually only get to make dough the night before. I've tried freezing the originally posted dough recipe, I've found it to be pretty good for about 2 weeks in the freezer.
Can this recipe be frozen with good results? or better yet, can the 3 days be cut back to 1 or 2?

RT

[dalucca2003]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Here is the updated HTML page:

http://www.fornobravo.com/pizza/pizza_dough.html

James,

Should it be 1.5 gr. with 500 gr of flour. It looks like Dmun is adding 3 gr. with 1000 gr. of flour which seems to make more sense.

[dmun]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Most of my pizza time is Sat or Sun, with a lot of traveling during the week. At best I usually only get to make dough the night before. I've tried freezing the originally posted dough recipe, I've found it to be pretty good for about 2 weeks in the freezer. Can this recipe be frozen with good results?

I've frozen the dough and it seems to work fine. The tricky thing is getting it the right temperature when you defrost it. If it sits out on the counter all day it's way too warm and stretchy. Look for holes and wierd shaped skins. I'm sure that you can figure out how long to defrost successfully.

or better yet, can the 3 days be cut back to 1 or 2?

I've done two days and four days with success. The idea of the two waiting periods, the twenty minutes between stirring and kneeding (which is called the autolise) and the three days in the fridge (which is called cold retardation) is to develop the gluten structure that is ordinairly produced mechanically, by kneeding or mixing. I think there is lots of room for experiment, but this is what is working for me at the moment.

[Dutchoven]

Re: Yeast Quantity

This is a really great thread...my only addition to this comes in...what are the other variables in each members formula. Keep in mind that if you use 10 gr yeast to 500 gr flour it is only a 2% addition in the formula...which in many cases is exactly what is used for most bread. IMHO if you are doing an overnight or longer refridgerated proof using commercial yeast you could cut that in half. The amount of yeast could be reduced nearly to nothing if the purpose were to create a longer fermentation time...3 gr to 1000 grams is minimal and 4 hours to double is acting more like a sourdough...no disrespect Dmun...I think it must give you a very interesting flavor that you could almost say would be truly your own. 10 gr per 1000 seems to make good sense to me.
Best
Dutch

[james]

Re: Yeast Quantity

James,

Should it be 1.5 gr. with 500 gr of flour. It looks like Dmun is adding 3 gr. with 1000 gr. of flour which seems to make more sense.

Either works. 1.5g/500g or 3g/1000g.

Let us know how it works,
James

[dmun]

Re: Yeast Quantity

Keep in mind that if you use 10 gr yeast to 500 gr flour it is only a 2% addition in the formula...which in many cases is exactly what is used for most bread. IMHO if you are doing an overnight or longer refridgerated proof using commercial yeast you could cut that in half. The amount of yeast could be reduced nearly to nothing if the purpose were to create a longer fermentation time...3 gr to 1000 grams is minimal and 4 hours to double is acting more like a sourdough...no disrespect Dmun...I think it must give you a very interesting flavor that you could almost say would be truly your own. 10 gr per 1000 seems to make good sense to me.

The amount of yeast is a function of how fast you want it to work. The FornoBravo recipe was intended for making dough in the same 90 or 100 minutes that it took to fire up your oven. It works fast, and it tastes like yeast, which which is great for a lot of people. I've been making bread off and on since I was a teenager, back when the glaciers were melting the first time, and that's how I always did it.

The Lahey/NYT no-kneed bread opened my eyes about how ordinary flour could taste like wheat, rather than the stuff you added to it. The make-it-wet/let-it-sit/treat-it-gently/cook-it-hot plan works great with the original recipe, but it also has wider application.

I'm now working on making a loaf of bread that you can slice and use for sandwiches, which is not as easy as it may sound, particularly if, like me, you are in the process of becoming a bread snob.

[james]

Re: Yeast Quantity

... which is not as easy as it may sound, particularly if, like me, you are in the process of becoming a bread snob.

The point of no return. One day you look up, and your bread is better than anything you can buy -- with the exception of Mary G's.

James

[dalucca2003]

Re: Yeast Quantity

The FornoBravo recipe was intended for making dough in the same 90 or 100 minutes that it took to fire up your oven. It works fast, and it tastes like yeast, which which is great for a lot of people.

Dmun....thanks for clarifying. Now it makes sense to add that much yeast. We almost always make our dough for pizza's on Thursday to be used on Saturday or Sunday. I am definitely going to cut back on the yeast. Now the question is ADY or instant yeast. Any difference?