Yellow Dough???????

[texassourdough]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

There is nothing wrong with using beer in the place of water in dough. Try it with bread! Egg is a bit odd, but...to each his own!
Jay

[brokencookie]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

As long as you are experiementing....

I recently had a terrific WFO pizza at a street fair. While the vendor would not give me his complete recipe he did tell me his ingredients. The notable additions were semolina flour, egg and beer

I'm pretty sure the beer went into the crust and not the baker



Bruce

[texassourdough]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Reinhart's recipes for pizza are about right but require more retard than sourdough (less time at room temp). I would just use his ratio and general recipe with your flour mix. That should work fine.

Good looking pizza!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Some more observations to report after making the next batch...

The 3 day old batch of sourdough was overproofed and very sour - kept one piece as "old dough".

New dough was a bit dry so next time I may up the the water component a bit.

Stretching was difficult and the dough hard despite a rest of a few hrs at room temperature.

Texture of dough not pliable (too little water??) Note pic of old and new dough side by side.

Browned nicely and was crispy.

Will have to rethink the process and maybe do a batch with a small amount of IDY. What is the minimum amount of IDY that one could use to get a similar rise to that of sourdough?

[texassourdough]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

The proper measurement for hydration is total water (from both starter, water added in all expansions, honey, eggs, etc. in more complex doughs) divided by total flour (from starter, flour added in all expansions).

If you start with 100 grams of starter at 100% that is 50 grams of water and 50 of flour. First expansion should be about 200 grams of water and 200 of flour for a total of 250 each. Then the final expansion should be about 1250 of flour (for a total of 1500) and about 750 of water (for a total of 1000). The hydration is 66 % (1000/1500).

[heliman]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Hello Jay...

Just thinking that because I usea starter that is about 100% hydration, the final mix is probably a bit above the 51% hydration in reality so that may explain that it turned out ok. There must be a way to work out overall hydration level mathematically but I have gone on the feel of the dough (erring on the side of dryness to emulate the bought dough).

Baking a bit later on today so will report back on my latest batch of pizza dough.

[texassourdough]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Hi Rossco!

I will give it a try. As I have said before, I am more of a refiner than an experimenter and I tend to repeat what I like once I find it.

I don't know semolina's hydration characteristics off the top of my head but 51% seems way low. More later!
Jay

[david s]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Den,
the trouble with leaving the dough on foil is the same as baking on trays. That is, moisture being trapped between the base and the foil. This results in an inferior and soggy base. Learn to slide the pizza off the peel and into the oven.The bottom of the base then gets a good cooking from the hot floor which draws moisture away.
We find that a quantity of dough (about2 Kg) stored in the fridge in plastic bags sprayed with cooking oil is a good method of storage and we then divide the dough as we need it.
Dave

[heliman]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Round number 2... slightly modified recipe...

I am giving the dough a good long rest on the bench before I cut it up and store it in the fridge for a few days to ferment.

This whole process has got me thinking about the overall consistency of the dough I have made before. There was never any of this real silkiness - with the previous doughs that I made a 65-69%hydration level. They were soft and floppy compared with the firmness of this latest creation which uses about a 50-51% hydration level. From what I have read - high hydration levels add to crunch but this can be recreated with semolina as has ben demonstrated here.

This really is a new adventure down the path to create a truly superb crust...

[dregnier]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Aluminum foil

I like the idea of being able to do as much prep work ahead. Preforming the dough onto foil and placing in frig ahead of time would help. Has anyone tried this? If so, would it then be possible to top the pizza and place it directly into the oven on the foil to cook? This would (should) eliminate the embarrassing situation of not being able to get the pie off the peel!

Den

[heliman]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Hi Rossco!

The pizza sounds great. I may have to try using semolina. I usually only use of for pasta and for dusting the peel.

Way to go!
Jay

Hi Jay,

Yes it is certainly the best pizza dough I have made and worth trying yourself. The sourdough addition produces the perfect amount of rise, whereas my other doughs used to puff and tear within a few hrs of being on the bench. As a sourdough expert you will definitely be able to work on the best formula to use for maximum taste/rise for pizzas.

I did have to grapple with going "non-neo" buy I reasoned that the taste is the most important part of pizza so I need to do what I have to do to produce the best all round product. In this case, it's the addition of semolina. I reason too that if it's good enough for Brandi then it's....

I would like to hear your comments on the inclusion of this crispening addition once tested. Perhaps you will also declare "there's no going back" once you have sampled this delicious variation!!!

[texassourdough]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Hi Splat!

We have taken a tangent from the yellow dough that probably deserves its own topic so it can be more concise.

In my experience and from what I hear almost all sourdoughs are similar to mine. There are supposedly some more robust strains - usually from Russia or the Middle East but I think the numbers I cited (which ARE based on my starter and experience) are pretty typical.

Don't kick yourself too hard. Sourdough is so damn variable (temp, humidity, flour, salt) (and I actually sometimes think yeast has moods!) that it is easy to not notice the patterns. I don't recall where I heard of shifting the expansion with temp but I don't think it is original. I have been doing it for about six years - mainly in the winter - and began after making bread that barely rose (too cold in the kitchen) (made hard giant hockey pucks). Yes, I know I could have used proofing box and all that but...I don't like to so....I just go with the temp I have and adapt. (And I do usually use a proofing box if the temp gets down to about 65. My yeast practically quits at that temp - never rise!)

WRT 8 hours to peak means 8 hours to proof. That is not my experience. My peak time for a 4X expansion is about 13 hours and I usually bake after about 7 to 10 hours after I make the final dough - about 3 to 4 hours from mixing to forming and about 4 to 5 hours to baking after forming. My forming time is usually fairly consistent. The proofing time can be pretty variable but I only let it grow by about 2/3 - not double.

I don't have Leaders book so I can't comment too much. Could be he has uniquely potent yeast. Could be he likes explosive loaves (underproofed loaves tend to explode a bit as a result of all the gas and alcohol in the dough that escapes as it bakes. It can't get out fast enough and the loaf "explodes".

Maybe I need to look at his book!

Good Luck!
Jay

[texassourdough]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

Hi Rossco!

The pizza sounds great. I may have to try using semolina. I usually only use of for pasta and for dusting the peel.

Way to go!
Jay

[heliman]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

What colour is your dough?

I am just wondering if the dough I bought is made of "old dough" that may have become yellow over time when it is added to the new batch of dough.

I don't think that the relatively small amount of semolina I am using is going to produce a dough that is as yellow as the bought one so something else must be causing this phenomenon.

As an aside, this is a recipe by Jamie Oliver which includes semolina flour. Similar to the one I made - but without the sugar.

Pizza Dough

This is a fantastic, reliable, everyday pizza dough, which can also be used to make bread. It's best made with Italian Tipo "00" flour, which is finer ground than normal flour, and it will give your dough an incredible super-smooth texture. Look for it in Italian markets and good supermarkets. If using white bread flour instead, make sure it's a strong one that's high in gluten, as this will transform into a lovely, elastic dough, which is what you want. Mix in some semolina flour for a bit of color and flavor if you like.

Ingredients
7 cups strong white bread flour or Tipo "00" flour or 5 cups strong white bread flour or Tipo "00" flour, plus 2 cups finely ground semolina flour
1 level tablespoon fine sea salt
2 (1/4-ounce) packets active dried yeast
1 tablespoon raw sugar
4 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil
2 1/2 cups lukewarm water

Sift the flours and salt onto a clean work surface and make a well in the middle. In a large measuring cup, mix the yeast, sugar and olive oil into the water and leave for a few minutes, then pour into the well. Using a fork, bring the flour in gradually from the sides and swirl it into the liquid. Keep mixing, drawing larger amounts of flour in, and when it all starts to come together, work the rest of the flour in with your clean, flour-dusted hands. Knead until you have a smooth, springy dough.

Place the ball of dough in a large flour-dusted bowl and flour the top of it. Cover the bowl with a damp cloth and place in a warm room for about 1 hour until the dough has doubled in size.

Now remove the dough to a flour-dusted surface and knead it around a bit to push the air out with your hands - this is called punching down the dough. You can either use it immediately, or keep it, wrapped in plastic wrap, in the fridge (or freezer) until required. If using straightaway, divide the dough up into as many little balls as you want to make pizzas - this amount of dough is enough to make about six to eight medium pizzas.

Timing-wise, it's a good idea to roll the pizzas out about 15 to 20 minutes before you want to cook them. Don't roll them out and leave them hanging around for a few hours, though - if you are working in advance like this it's better to leave your dough, covered with plastic wrap, in the refrigerator. However, if you want to get them rolled out so there's 1 less thing to do when your guests are round, simply roll the dough out into rough circles, about 1/4-inch thick, and place them on slightly larger pieces of olive-oil-rubbed and flour-dusted aluminum foil. You can then stack the pizzas, cover them with plastic wrap, and pop them into the refrigerator.

[david s]

Re: Yellow Dough???????

The two heaped tablespoons of semolina for every 4 cups of pizza flour recipe that I've been using, works out to be almost exactly the 7% that you arrived at.It produces a base that is light but a bit crunchy. We started doing this about 6 months ago and now always do it this way.