web analytics
Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight - Forno Bravo Forum: The Wood-Fired Oven Community

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • thehoj
    replied
    Re: Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight

    Is it possible to make a dough like this entirely by hand?..

    I don't have a mixer of any kind.. and I have generally been making my dough by mixing for as long as I can in a bowl.. gets pretty hard to mix after about 1 - 2 minutes .. And then I knead it for like 5 - 8 minutes..

    I've been fairly happy with the results, but I've just been using standard plain old all-purpose flour and supermarket grade ingredients, so I know I can do better..
    I recently ate an authentic Napoletana pizza at a restaurant in Calgary, AB (Pulcinella) which was amazingly good.. And so I'd like to try to replicate this as best I can with my BroilKing grill (will go up to 700 degrees) & pizza stone..

    Once I'm able to locate the proper ingredients I'd like to attempt to make this without the aid of a mixing machine. Is it possible??

    Originally posted by james View Post
    We have been experimenting with this for some time, and I think we are ready to offer a standard "by weight" recipe for Pizza Napoletana dough. One thing that is remarkable is how simple it is -- if you start with the right ingredients and use a digital scale, it can be easy and fast. This is an olive oil-free recipe, but in order for it to work, you need to use real Italian Tipo 00 pizza flour.

    I have started working in grams, as the baker's percent is easy to calculate digitally. If you don't have a digital scale, think about getting one. They aren't expensive (I bought my scale at Walmart for $25), and a scale will definitely improve you baking. If you don't want to go digital, you can find our Pizza Napoletana recipe (in cups) here:

    That said, I have enjoyed moving from volume (cups) to weight (grams). It is more accurate and it's fast. It can also be consistently replicated -- which unlike most home recipes, it very important.

    Here goes:

    500 grams Caputo Tipo 00 pizza flour
    325 grams water (65% hydration)
    2 tsp salt
    2 tsp active dry yeast

    Using a stand mixer set a low speed (use #2 for a minute or two, go to #4, then back to #2 with a KitchenAid mixer), blend the water and flour until you have reached a dough ball. It should take a couple of minutes. Once you have incorporated all of the flour, stop, and let everything rest for 10 minutes. This period will allow the flour to fully absorb the water.

    Then mix the dough for 10 mintues.

    Let the dough rest at room temperature for 90 minutes. It should have doubled.

    Then, cut the dough into four balls (125g each). Shape the pizza balls, and set them on a floured surface to rest for at least 30 minutes. If you start in the morning or the night before, make your dough balls in advance and put them in the refrigerator.

    If you use Caputo Tipo 00 flour, the moist (65% hydrated) recipe and you handle your dough gently, you will reward you with a supple, silkly pizza base that is easy to shape, springs in the oven, and tastes great.
    James

    Leave a comment:


  • mgraban
    replied
    Re: Perfect Pizza Dough by Weight

    I just made some dough using the first James recipe, 500 g flour, 65% water. I actually added MORE water after the 10 min autolyse because the dough ball wasn't sticking to the bottom at all, it seemed too dry. Added maybe 1 tbsp extra, seemed ok when I pulled it out to rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • zopi
    replied
    Bout time I posted something useful...

    I made a pie last night, was fresh Mozz and smoked black and green olives..

    for those who do not have a smoker, grab a big box, poke two holes in two opposing sides, thread a dowel through the holes, rest a grill on the dowels with the box flipped over, cut a hinged flap in one side near the bottom..

    ok that's yer smoker...now you need smoke..grab one of wifey's 8 or 9 inch
    cast iron skillets..one she doesn't ever use.. and a ten dollar single burner hot plate from wally world...now, soak some hardwood chips, your choice, in a pan of water for at least a couple hours, but not much more than a couple days, load a handful into the skillet and cover it with heavy grade aluminum foil, poke a few holes in..the idea here is to keep the wood from catching
    fire,
    you just want it to smoulder..set the hot plate in the box, (far enough from the
    carboard so as not to catch fire please...turn it on to about medium and
    drop the skillet on the burner...now, watch and see how much smole you get, if it's great big clouds, turn down the fire, you just want a nice steady flow...

    when you are happy with the smoke, you can put the food in by unfolding the
    top (bottom really) of said large box.

    Here is the fun part, take a pyrex pan or whatever (it's a cold smoker so temp isn't a big deal, washing out the dish later is a hassle though, pyrex makes it easy..loomnum foil works too... anyway, dump in a handful of green olves and some black olives, drizzle a little EVOO and sprinkle with garlic powder (lightly!) some pecorino romano, maybe a little white pepper..whatever you think is good..now smoke 'em until you like 'em!

    you can then add the olives to anything you;d usually use olves for, but you might find that they don't last.

    if you want to be the center of attention at a pot luck, chuck a few of these into the cuisinart and grinde em to pate, which can be used as such, or mixed with cream cheese and served on water crackers, maybe with a bit of lox and caviar...

    try this...grab a block o half decent cheddar and smoke it...see, I just freed you from 8.00 a pound smoked cheese.

    heh..salt cure some salmon and...well, you get the point..

    Don't however try this with un cured meat...gotta have a hot smoker for that action.

    yes, I did see that episode of Good Eats..been doing it this way for a long time.

    with a little more equipment, you can make your own pepperoni..chorizo..
    name it.

    Oh..do this outside... If I didn't say it...
    hope somebody finds this useful.

    Edit: I see I got this in the wrong pigeon hole...feel free to move it...<DOH!>
    Last edited by zopi; 10-16-2006, 01:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • maver
    replied
    Originally posted by james
    How long are you resting your dough balls after you shape them? They need time to relax.
    I made two batches, one 3 nights before and one 2 nights before, although I did not have my dough ball containers (used Glad 42oz square plastic containers) when I made each batch so they were divided and rested for 1-2 days each. Again, unbelievably supple and easy to work with. Our crust before this was in between cracker and VPN. Ordering the pizza turner and some caputo today.

    Leave a comment:


  • james
    replied
    Back to the yeast

    Tom,

    I have always thought that it is best to use just enough yeast to accomplish the rise you want in the time frame you want. If you have the time, and your dough is working well, I don't think there is any advantage to using more yeast. I don't find a yeasty flavor all that attractive and if your dough rises too fast, you are not getting all the flavor and texture you can from the flour. I've read numerous articles and books on how yeast and dough work (though of course I don't remember the chemistry), and the main theme seems to be that time and cold fermentation are good -- and that while you can hurry fermentation with more yeast and a 90F temperature -- such as bread machine, your dough won't be as nice.

    When I am in a hurry, and want to be certain that my dough will rise in time for my dinner (or party or event), I will use a little extra yeast to be risk aversive, but that's all.

    In one sense, I think your home pizza can be better than restaurant pizza -- where too often they don't have the time (or space, or refrigeration, or cost-structure) to do long ferments. The same is true with your olive oil. At home you can use the good stuff, where many restaurants don't.

    James

    Leave a comment:


  • james
    replied
    The rolling pin thing is really a matter of taste. I guess it's a pet peeve of mine. Still, I'm glad your pizzas are working.

    How long are you resting your dough balls after you shape them? They need time to relax.

    There are various types of real pizza, each of which is authentic and different people like different styles. The main types include Pizza Napoletana (where you quickly hand toss the dough made from Italian Tipo 00 flour), NY style pizza (which is a slightly thicker and chewier and based mainly on US bread flour), cracker style (which has a thin and crispy dough that does not puff up around the cornice and is made with a rolling pin), and a much thicker Sicilian pizza (which is bread like underneath). There is even a generic "thin" pizza that you find in Italian pizzerias -- somewhere between Pizza Napoletana and the cracker style. I have heard people complain that Pizza Napoletana is too heavy for them. Imagine that -- if only they could see a chain store pizza, they would fall over.

    There is definitely no "right" pizza.

    I can't imagine using my oven without the turning peel --it's an essential.

    Leave a comment:


  • maver
    replied
    sorry James

    I didn't mean to cause you pain with the mention of the rolling pin . Since you have raised that concern twice, I had to revisit what I do. I built my pizza oven to improve on pizza that we have made at home since as long as I can remember. I never questioned my dough or my dough handling. So now I've wandered over to the pizzamaking.com website and have been reading a little. Our usual family dough is lower hydration than the recipe you suggest here. We've always divided it at the time of dough shaping. I tried your higher hydration dough with the same technique (divide at the time of shaping) and it really did not lend itself to hand stretching - this was not with Caputo flour, though. Then I read more at pizzamaking.com and also saw a link someone posted here and ended up following this recipe (as much as I could maintain my attention, it's really long):

    http://www.sliceny.com/jvpizza.php

    So, I made a similar high hydration dough with 75% baker's flour and 25% cake flour and then with a wet knead (and the rest of the flour added later per the directions) and dough divided into 180g balls I made 14 pizza last night. With this dough handling, there was just no need for a rolling pin. The weight of the dough was enough to stretch it. It was supple, as you said earlier. This was the best crust I have ever had. It stretched too thin at times (can't really hold up to toppings when you are reading through the dough) and so I'll try larger dough balls next time.

    Anyhow, thanks for the bonk on the head with a rolling pin. My father was over for the pizza last night and he was ok with the recipe change (and he was raised in Naples). I expect I'll be placing an order for Caputo tomorrow, I just need to make sure my wife is ok with me buying a turning peel after watching the video from Youtube that DMUM posted. Why do you think they raise the pizza to the upper layers of the dome - are they checking the crust or flash browning the top?

    Leave a comment:


  • tgm
    replied
    We have also tried to let the mix sit for a time prior to forming the dough balls and we, even as green amatuers, have noticed the difference. 20min to 1/2hr seems to work the best. We are using Caputo and the dough balls form wonderfully after proofing at room temp for 5-6hrs. We are using 275g dough balls for a 12in pizza as that's our peel size. You can stretch that dough paper thin and into a much larger round if you like. As novices we tried a rolling pin for a brief stint and then abandoned it's use after we got proficient at forming by hand. Much better texture doing it by hand also.
    We are still only using 3g of active yeast per 1780g of Caputo and all the talk I see on this board uses much more than that.
    We are about ready to try increasing the yeast, per this discussion thread, and wonder what the overall difference will be in proofing, forming taste etc.
    Any clues or info would be helpful.

    Thanks guys,

    Tom in PA

    Leave a comment:


  • james
    replied
    AHHHHHHH. No rolling pins.

    I guess some folks like the cracker style crust, but it's not for me. Yeah, 65% hydration is extreme. The dough balls are really soupy. 60% is easier, and still a nice dough.
    James

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeyr
    replied
    If you like really thin crusts ( a proper pizza in my opinion ) then you should try hand working your dough, yes with a roller you can consistent results but I find working by hand will yield a thinner dough with practice. Also, I can't tell you about the dough balls vs. just dividing, as I have never done that, I always make up dough balls and let them rest.

    Try the Caputo flour if you like really thin crusts, it does thin crust better than all the flours I have tried. I just think that the 65% hydration recommended here is WAY too much, somewhere between 60% and 62% seems to give me workable dough. The 65% was really tasty but too much work for a quick pizza at lunch time.

    Leave a comment:


  • maver
    replied
    dough balls

    I have a question about pizza dough handling. Most dough recipes here describe dividing the dough into balls in advance. What advantage does this have vs just dividing the dough as you begin the pizza making? I have always divided the dough just prior to making pizza, but I also have rolled the dough out (with a tapered rolling pin) rather than stretching it. I have fair experience (only for home) baking bread and understand the idea of trying to reduce how much you handle the dough for breads like ciabatta or foccaccia, but it seems pizza dough is a different animal - even if you don't roll it as I do the stretching of the dough by fingers or by throwing the dough will break down most of the captured air bubbles. I plan to have a go at trying dough balls and hand stretching (but I like my crust really thin - can you stretch an 8oz dough ball to 14inches?) but wonder what I should be looking for with the difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • james
    replied
    Hi Jim,

    That is how I do it. I've been meaning to do a couple of experiments side by side to see if I can really tell the difference between the dough texture and flavor and how it rises -- comparing addinge everything (salt and all) at once and letting it rest for 20 minutes, vs. adding the salt right before kneading.

    What do you think.
    James

    Leave a comment:


  • CanuckJim
    replied
    Salt

    James,

    Don't know what you do, but my approach is always to mix flour, water and yeast for a few minutes, let rest for about 20, then add the salt and knead. This might have to do with the fact that I use a lot of wild yeast starters, and they're more sensitive to direct contact with salt.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • james
    replied
    Ooops.

    Hey di Segni,

    Pretty funny. You'd end up with some pretty odd dough without the yeast and salt.

    I'll fix that. While I'm at it, I will add the dough by volume measurements to the Caputo pdf file and post that to the site.

    Nice catch; thanks.
    James

    Leave a comment:


  • maver
    replied
    Does it burn

    Janprimus, my usual pizza recipe has a little olive oil, but with the higher heat of the pizza recipe I've dropped the olive oil to slow down the browning so the crust doesn't burn prior to the toppings browning. Have you used your EVOO recipe in your pizza oven? There's strict VPN pizza dough and then there's personal taste. I have not tried caputo flour yet though, so I'm not strictly traditional either. I've usually used a cup of flour (or a little less) per pizza, but I roll it out to about 16 inches.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X