putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

[terrymirri]

Will soon buy a casa 2G 90 pizza oven and install in kitchen. Does anyone have any comments or experience in installing such a gas starter and if so would appreciate there guidence and/ or recommendation. greatfully ter

[Ken524]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

Hi Terry,
Welcome to the forum!

We (the forum members) and Forno Bravo generally frown on gas in home pizza ovens. Build up of gas in the dome could spell disaster for your oven, life and limb. I know it sounds like a wonderful convenience, but it's way more trouble than it's worth.

Lighting an oven and bringing it up to temp with cured firewood is painless and fast. Gas is a waste of time, money and a serious safety issue.

[BrianShaw]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

I understand and can respect the wisdom of Ken's comment, but a question: how do the "other guys" control this risk in their commercial gas-fired pizza ovens? Do they have blowers to purge the dome of any accumulated gas prior to lighting? Isn't this a very similar risk that we all face with gas-heated home ovens... or is the assumption that home ovens are vented enough to mitigate the risk?

[david s]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

A properly fitted burner has a flame failure device to shut off the gas supply if the flame goes out. Lots of members seem to use weed burners to assist starting, but this obviously is also a safety issue.

[BrianShaw]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

A properly fitted burner has a flame failure device to shut off the gas supply if the flame goes out. Lots of members seem to use weed burners to assist starting, but this obviously is also a safety issue.

Yes, indeed. After thinking about it that came to mind. Of course the commercial ovens would have proper gas valves with thermocoupled protection, etc.

Perhaps the warning is also about primitive devices sometimes used in fireplaces, called log lighters, in addition to blow torches and weed burners. They are basically pieces of gas pipe with holes drilled along its length. No thermocoupled gas valve. This device just uses a gas valve that does "on, off, and whatever is in-between".

[kmrice]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

One problem would be that a WFO, when burning wood, gets up to 1,000 degrees, sometimes quite a bit more, when firing up. I'd wonder if the safety device would stand up to being heated that high on a regular basis. One designed for a kitchen oven might not be engineered to withstand the temps in a WFO.

One Pizza chain with a local restaurant here claims to use wood fired ovens but really has gas fired ovens in which they burn a little wood, mostly, it seems, for the smoke and smell, rather than the heat. It appears to me that they are running the ovens at a considerably lower temperatures than true WFOs; their pizza takes much longer to cook than the 90 seconds or so required at 700 to 800 degrees. I would guess this pizza chain is cooking at around 600 - 650, and their ovens never see the temps a WFO gets to when firing up. No doubt these ovens are fitted with safety devices, but they are probably not exposed to the temps of a true WFO.

Plus, the well built WFO is more or less air tight. Any CNG leak would collect in the dome. With LP, which is heavier than air, a leak might vent a little out the door, but could still collect in dangerous quantities.

Hopefully, any safety device would be "fail safe" and would turn the gas off if it failed.

Karl

[HeidiL2011]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

Hello Ter,

We do not recommend gas fired ovens for homeowners for three reasons. First, there are some serious safety issues. Pizza ovens are small and enclosed, and even a small leak can leave enough gas in an oven to be unsafe and capable of exploding. Our commercial gas-fired ovens have very sophisticated burners, controls and shut-offs that minimize risk, but they cost $4,000 by themselves. The scope of the safety problem is very large, with the possibility of a life-threatening explosion.



Second, commercial gas-fired ovens are operated in a commercial setting by professionals. We have concerns about a potentially dangerous gas-fired oven being operated by friends, neighbors or even children. Even if a problem were to never occur, the stress of worrying about oven safety would detract from the enjoyment of owning a pizza oven.



Third, a gas fire has much less potential energy than a wood fire, so gas-fired ovens take a long time to heat up from scratch. Gas does a good job of holding a commercial oven at cooking temperature because those ovens never fully cool down. Still, it can take hours for a gas burner to heat up an oven from a cold start -- which is what homeowners do with their ovens. The Forno Bravo wood-fired ovens heat up in 20 to 45 minutes, which is why they are so popular.



Please let me know if we can answer any other questions.

Thanks,
Heidi

[Ken524]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

Thanks for posting that Heidi!

The deal breaker for me is #3. Why mess with the expense and problems of gas when you can have an extremely hot wood fire going in minutes?

[shuboyje]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

I'd love to see someone heat ANY oven in 20 to 45 minutes. I think those claims need to be adjusted.

[cobblerdave]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

Gudday Shuboyje

Interesting point.....
Is there a difference between the heating time for a large brick oven and a thinner shelled cast?
I don't know ...I do know my 42 in brick will cook pizza on 1 to 1 1/2 hour burn or 2 hour plus for larger heat load for cooking from the retained heat next day
Any thoughts on this????

Regards Dave

[Ken524]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

The small portable that FB sells has a much thinner wall than our Pompeii's. I'm sure it heats up significantly faster.

[dmun]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

I have a thinner brick oven than most, and it takes me the same 1.5 -2 hr heat up as every one else.

[david s]

Re: putting a gas starter in casa 90 series

I'd love to see someone heat ANY oven in 20 to 45 minutes. I think those claims need to be adjusted.

If you reread her post you'll note she said heat up, but did not give the temp. If I'm just going to cook a couple of loaves of bread, as I did today, I fire my oven for around 45 mins which brings it up hot enough to cook the bread although the heat has not had time to soak right through the inner refractory shell. Same goes for a roast, we often only partially fire the oven, after all you only need sufficient heat to cook what you need. It is both fast and fuel efficient.