New (2nd) build in Brisbane

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

It's up to you how you proceed with the build, but I like to do the curing fires after insulating, but before doing the outside render to avoid steam pressure build up which can crack the outer shell if theres lots of moisture there. You may not have this problem if you are not doing a vermicrete layer and rendering straight on to the blanket. The problem with that approach is that in order to even out the lumps and bumps the blanket makes, you have to do a much thicker outer render and it will also therefore be more uneven in its thickness. The blanket will also be a bit springy making it more difficult to render against than a vermicrete layer. It is also prudent to wrap the outer shell after finishing it (I use cling wrap) to hold in the moisture for a week to enhance strength.This is important IMO because the inside of the outer shell layer is having its moisture sucked away so at least you can prevent moisture loss from the outside with this method. (bet your instructions didn't tell you this)

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Yeah I always planned to wait until doing the insulation. Also not going to lay sheeting I think it will just move around and get in the way.

Current schedule:

Mon - insulate dome with blanket 3x 25mm layers. Tie down and chicken mesh
Tue - level oven area using mortar mix
Thur/Fri - tiler comes to tile the oven area
Sat/Sun - render the dome with mortar

Following weekend I will probably go about fitting the flue/ceiling plate etc.

After that, once the dome render is cured, I can begin curing fires.

Sometime during that period the outside floor area will be tiled.

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I wouldn't be levelling out that area until after doing the insulation layers. You don't want conductive concrete up against the inner refractory dome.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Just had the tiler out to take a look.
He said to use rapid set concrete and wants it all levelled.

The distance between the cal sil and the blocks is only 17mm.
Not as much fill as I thought I would need to be.


I think David's suggestion of just using mortar may be the best way to go.

Do you think I should lay sheeting to avoid moisture ingress to the cal sil or just go with a drier mortar mix?

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I would need a *lot* of mortar to level off that area. Would be better just doing a batch of concrete. However I didn't want to use anything cement based as the cal sil board would soak up the moisture and take forever to dry out!
What about using exterior grade fibre board, cement board or similar?

As for the flue, was planning to just do a single flue into a ceiling plate with a dektite high temp silicon on the top side. The patio is just your thin colour bond steel.

Cut some plastic to cover the area and then place your concrete.

[Greenman]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

It must be disappointing if the kit is not up to expectations but if it all fits inside you should be able to make it a goer. I don't have a plate on my flue and it works fine. The seal at that site does not need to be airtight and I cut a groove in the bricks and sealed to that. No smoke emits from there.

I have been using a local sheet metal/plumbing shop to make my s/s flues and chimney pipes and hats etc. I have found them to be good with quality, price and delivery time. There must be a place in Brisbane who can do the job.

The things I have had made are, as a unit. One flue 200mm x 900mm, one chimney pipe 250mm x 900 and a 'chinamans hat' plus supports and support strapping 2m x 25mm. The whole lot for $285. All of this is stainless.

I used this on my oven and the others I have helped others with. There are some very expensive options out there but some local manufacturers would love your business to stay afloat.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I would need a *lot* of mortar to level off that area. Would be better just doing a batch of concrete. However I didn't want to use anything cement based as the cal sil board would soak up the moisture and take forever to dry out!
What about using exterior grade fibre board, cement board or similar?

As for the flue, was planning to just do a single flue into a ceiling plate with a dektite high temp silicon on the top side. The patio is just your thin colour bond steel.

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I wouldn't be putting MDF in there, it could get wet and swell and cause problems. Why not use some mortar to level it off?
Regarding your flue it is normal to use a double thickness flue pipe if going through a ceiling and roof. The outer one does not have to be stainless. You'll also need a "Dektight" for the seal where the pipe exits the roof, although not absolutely essential, depends on what the pipe is passing through and beside. You need to go 600 mm beyond the roof where the pipe exits. There are two types of Dektights, a black rubber one and an orange silicon rubber one for higher temp applications.

If your oven floor is elbow height then you must be really tall.

Does the kit provide instructions for installation?

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

This is when I should also mention the quality of this kit ain't quite there. First attachment shows the height difference between the left and ride side dome pieces.
The same is reflected inside, with the left being about 15mm lower than the right.
Shouldn't affect performance though.
With all that done, I opened up the refractory mortar which was actually all mixed ready to go and started spreading.

On Monday I will begin the insulation and meshing.

My current concerns are the flue. It seems I am just meant to slot the flue into the cast piece - or should I buy a plate?
I also need to buy a ceiling plate and second flue piece to extend through the patio.
Need to find somewhere local that has a 150mmx900mm flue piece as no one ships those.
The other big hurdle is how to raise the level of the exposed cal sil area so it is flush with the block work so tiles can be laid over it. My best/easiest idea is to just use some old MDF I have lying around, cut it to shape to fill the areas and sit it on top of the cal sil - but I am not sure if tiles will glue OK onto wood.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Now with the hearth pieces levelled, I assemble the two dome pieces with the help of my dad.
Unfortunately there were a lot of casting imperfections which I ground off. Also, unlike my old Vibrok WFO, the Vesuvio does not have interlocking lips so I have no choice but to use refractory mortar.
Fair bit of working around and getting everything right.

Then the next problem. The supplied front arch is actually too low to sit on the calsil board, you can't get the door in there. Only solution is to raise its height using some off cuts from my blocks.
The the major problem. The flue entry cast block just doesn't fit/work with the front block arch. If you butt it against the front arch it is just too restrictive and fits poorly. It can't be fit over the top like it is meant to without significant work.

Out with the masonry blade angle grinder and I now have everything fitting pretty well.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

The underside can wait - the build must go on!

Spent most of today on it. First step, levelling the concrete with clay dust.

Had planned to drop the Cal Sil board straight in but it was a bit longer than it should have been and too tight on the tolerances so took 50mm and 20mm off the side/front.

I then began unpacking the shipping crate of my WFO.

Got the Cal Sil levelled then trialled the fitment of the hearth pieces. Unfortunately the hearth pieces were not level, especially the front piece which was 7mm too high.
Ended up chiselling into the Cal Sil board and using the clay sand to level everything else.

Laid one of my gorgeous Pietra Gray marble tiles on the front. These will be laid all the way around the oven and the side bench. They will contrast perfectly with my Calcutta Marble prep bench.

[cobblerdave]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

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Don't muck around just paint this on and forget about it. It's under the slab where no one will look anyway.
Regards dave

Regards Dave

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

This is usually caused by insufficient vibration or too dry a mix, or combination of both.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

It seems I greatly underestimated the force required to settle concrete when hitting under the formwork.

I would say that the guides and discussion on these forums really needs to be updated on the details regarding pouring of the suspended slab but given that I am the only one who seems to have had this problem (and have done it twice now) I am simply an idiot.

Feeling pretty down with a lot more messy extra work to do.

*sigh*

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Yeah should happen pretty quickly from now on.

Realised last night I didn't put enough support under the formwork so one of the sides has dipped a bit. No big deal it just won't be completely flat