New (2nd) build in Brisbane

[applor]

Hey guys,

You may remember my first build with a 2nd hand modular oven:

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f7/n...tti-20431.html

I have since moved house and so must do everything all over again:S

I am now posting in here instead of the modular thread though. The Vibrok is not moveable so doing a brand new build.

The area I plan to build in is ready to go. It is all under patio cover which is great, plenty of room. I had a corner I just filled with concrete (pre-pour photo attached). Oven is on a pallet ready to go.

My current design decision is which way to go about building the base.

I had planned to keep costs and difficulty low by building the base out of dry stacked grey besser block and using hebel powerboard for the hearth.
Unfortunately there are a few problems with this - namely the gaps between the blocks as they allow 10mm for mortar. Is there an easy way around this? I need to keep standard sizing so that the Hebel board size fits square with the area. I would then pay someone to have the structures all rendered.

The other option is to do what I did previously - GB masonry blocks, mortared and a concrete hearth.
This however is more expensive as the blocks cost twice as much and I need a brickie to lay them, the concrete hearth is also more expensive than using Hebel. While I save on time by having a brickie do the blocks it also means doing formwork etc. for the suspended slab which I wouldn't need to do with Hebel. Lastly another problem is I need an extra tiled bench area - I planned to lay tiles on a hebel panel (which would have the sides rendered) - cheap and easy. I can't do this with the GB blocks method though as the hebel board wouldn't be finished like the blocks.

It seems both methods have their pros/cons. I would prefer to do the first method with dry stacked blocks but the gaps in the blocks seems like a huge pain.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hmmm, seems I may have found the solution.

Boral Masonry Connex Mortarless Block System.

[browny]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I think you're saying that your base has to end up some multiple of 200mm and hence normal grey cement blocks (190mm) will have a number of 10mm gaps. If that's a problem then why not dry stack it, fill your cores and then mix up some mud and point up the gaps. If you're mixing concrete then this is well within your capability. Otherwise, if you're getting it rendered then the renderer probably won't bat an eyelid at filling up a few 10mm gaps.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Yes that is what I am saying.

I did think about doing what you're suggesting but that is a fair bit of work to the point that you might as well just use mortar in the first place.

In either case I think the mortarless block system will do the job perfect and be even easier since the blocks are grooved.

Waiting on approval from my significant other, then I will order the blocks!

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi applor

Oven on the pallet please explain kit, components, pre fab.... how about some photos of said

[brissie]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I used 150 blocks that included a bond beam around the top, this gives enough strength to support hebel PowerFloor board, as an oven base. I also used steal supports for added strength.

Perhaps you could do a bond beam on top of dry stacked blocks. Only the vertical corners are reinforced and concrete filled in my base.


My Build link:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ane-19976.html

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi applor

Oven on the pallet please explain kit, components, pre fab.... how about some photos of said

But of course The oven is a Vesuvio FVR80. A modular Napoli style 80cm internal (32 inch) Italian built oven.
There are a few importers here in Aus but found these guys to be the cheapest:
Vesuvio Residential Wood Fire Ovens Series FVR 80

Worked out about $2080 GST+delivered I think.
My requirements were a quality modular style oven, 32 inch size. The 'Mediterranean' ovens are slightly barrel shaped and the 'Alfresco' ovens dome is 1 cast piece making installation difficult but they were a close second.

The Vesuvio doesn't come with the base insulation (they actually say to use the Hebel as insulation which I won't be doing) but I preferred that as I can then choose my base insulation thickness etc. to suit my installation. Doesn't cost much and there is a factory nearby.

I have attached photos of the oven on pallet as well as what the concreted area now looks like and the whole patio area - though it is awfully messy etc. atm. I am planning at this stage to build a block area for a permanent install of the BBQ.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Based on that 150 blocks. Plus concrete to fill cavity, I'm wondering about comparison price between hebel blocks that I used for my base. 600 200 150.only needed 40 of them and could have built my base with less I believe around 32.

Might actually try and work that cost difference out

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I used 150 blocks that included a bond beam around the top, this gives enough strength to support hebel PowerFloor board, as an oven base. I also used steal supports for added strength.

Perhaps you could do a bond beam on top of dry stacked blocks. Only the vertical corners are reinforced and concrete filled in my base.


My Build link:
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...ane-19976.html

Yes I am familiar with your build as it has been a source of information and inspiration for me as yours is one of the only builds that has used Hebel panels for your hearth. A very solid design!
My only changes from that is that by using full size blocks (dry stacked) to create a base exactly 1200x1200, my Hebel panels will be flush with the sides and rendered along with the blocks to hopefully achieve a seamless exterior finish up to the top of the hearth.

My current base block plan is essentially an 'E' shape to provide strength through the middle. This will leave a span of 400mm between the legs of the 'E' which shouldn't be too much for the Hebel to support.
Looking at doing 2 layers of 75mm Hebel, so a total of 4 panels (1200x600) which will sit on top of the entire 'E' structure and flush with the outer edges of the blocks.

My only current dilemma is working out how to finish the top around the dome as I was looking at doing it at the same height as the oven cooking deck to get that nice flat look. Ideally I need another 75mm layer of Hebel around the outside of the oven which will be difficult to shape (I kind of need a Hebel panel without the steel re-enforcing) which I would then tile.
50mm insulation + 40mm deck = 90mm.
75mm Hebel + 10mm of tiles = 85mm.
Would work out pretty damn well imo!

I should also add I am planning it to be a corner build with the oven angled 45 degrees to face directly in towards the entertainment area, so I will make one of the corner 'E' legs a bit shorter and cut the Hebel at a 45 degree angle.

Lastly, I have already sourced my prep area bench. A lovely piece of Marble - 1600x600 in size and a very solid and generous 40mm thickness! White with grey/black veining. It is 2nd hand (previous owner used it for the same thing!) but being Marble can be polished/re-finished etc if I need.
Will post a picture of it tomorrow.

[cobblerdave]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

G'day
There are 75mm hebel block available that isn't power panel with the steel reinforcing in it. Easy to lay just glue it down. Easy to shape. Heck my oven door is carved from the stuff. You can saw it, rasp it, chisel it, power tools are very messy and dusty though.
The hebel web site is designed for the pros so its hard to get information from it without a log in, but if you go out to the mob at Salsbury they are a lot of help.
Regards dave

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I agree Dave...... I used 600 x 200 x 150 hebel blocks in my base and too me they were cheaper, easier, quicker to use, no concrete or reinforcing required, just as strong. I used 40 in my build in my next build I will only require about 32.

Hebel panel for my hearth base adding the extra insulation.

Applor I would look at my build if you have not already purchased cement blocks.

The main reason I used hebel was NO ONE ELSE HAD, it was easier to build my base, took a weekend, no extra concrete required and so so so easy to use, as Dave has pointed out.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR ANY FUTURE WFO BUILDERS OUT THERE.

Check out my build click on link and look at posts either side of it
http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/51/n...tml#post144026

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi Applor

Further to the above I was thinking about your build, you mentioned you are looking at an E shape. Looking at your layout and position. I would look at a H shape so you can access storage from behind. If you go with an E shape you will find it difficult to get storage at the back of the base. I have that issue where I cannot access the back half of the base so it is wasted space.

If you opt for a H base with metal reinforcing [on top to support the Hebel panel] you can store wood front and back of the base. Think about it. I remember mentioning this to someone else in a similar situation to you "new precut kit build in Adelaide". So give it some thought front to back on an oven that is around 1.5m to 2m deep. It is very difficult getting to the back of 750mm so if you have an E shape you need to get to the back of this whole depth.

You have access to the back I would use it constructively

[brissie]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Applor, It looks like you have most if the ideas sorted out.

You could just use 600 * 200 * 75 mm thick hebel block, and carve it to shape. As cobblerdave said, this stuff cuts easily with or without power tools. The buttress supports at the side of my dome are just hebel sawn and sanded to shape.

I agree with oasiscdm, that a H shape makes good use of space that is accessible. 400 wide and about 1000 deep will make it hard to get to the back.

Have you thought about using steel across the front of the opening?

Steve,

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi Steve

nice point about steel - but on a H shape you will need steel lintels front and back to support the Hebel Panel. E shape only the front.

Applor even if you enclose the oven separating the undercover area from the rear I would still have rear access. I filled my base with wood over the weekend and I have a H frame [sort of without rear access]. Even at 600 deep it is difficult to get to the back with an overhang on the hearth [in my case my base and hearth is 1600 deep with a 300 over hang].

In my case due to location the back half of my oven is not accessible, but I minimized the depth of usable space to 600 deep. leaving another 600 wasted. A choice I regret now.

Think about it long and hard before moving forward.

[cobblerdave]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

G'day Applor
That seamless oven hearth floor to stand deck look is something I like to see.
I can't think of an oven that has been pulled of on this forum with that look.
Recon though you would have to have a really perfect dome shape to really pull of that seamless look.
One more thing I've discovered is that the UK builders use a black enameled steel chimneys. Now that would be cool. Stainless steel chimneys discolour with heat and use and loose their uniform finish. Might be something for to investigate
As always regards
Dave