New (2nd) build in Brisbane

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Didn't litekeeper finish his like that Dave?

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hebel is around a third of the weight of standard concrete and I think around a third of the strength. There is a type they call Power Panel which has 5 mm steel rods cast into the centre of each 75mm thick panel. I used Hebel for the supporting slab of my mobile oven which I built around six years ago and it has cracked badly. I used it not only as the supporting slab but also as the insulating slab so maybe the heat from the floor was a bit too much or the bumping around on rough roads. When I rebuild it I will not be using Hebel again.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Wow plenty of discussion thankyou all for your replies and advice as always.

First up as promised I have attached a pic of my Marble

Oasiscdm - thanks for your suggestion to use Hebel blocks for the base. It is definitely an option and I had thought about it but thought that the Hebel blocks were expensive - ie. three times the cost of besser blocks. I have not been given pricing so I may be off on that and also the Connex blocks will be dearer than standard grey blocks too. Going to look through your build now.

As for the shape/layout of my base, remember that it is only planned to be 1200x1200 so the back under area won't be that deep (as say compared to a 1.5 to 2 metre deep area)
My reason to have chosen the E shape over the H shape was that the backside would be exposed to the elements and rain could get in and wet any wood stored there, rather with the E shape the back would be sealed.
I have not decided nor bought bricks yet however so still working these things out.
The other option would be an E shape but without the back wall (essentially a lll shape) which would allow access to the wood from both ends but without a common back wall it would not be as strong. I could also do a H shape but with an extra wall down the middle to provide enough support for the Hebel without using bond beams.
I am trying to avoid additional steel beam supports as I have not worked with them and would add extra cost and complexity that I should be able to avoid.

Dave - thanks for the advice about the Chimney. Mine is a standard 6" (150mm) and as I need to run it through the patio I need extra flue anyways so might as well get a black one. Just need to find a Brisbane supplier!

davids - Yeah power panel is what I was going to use. There is also power floor which is much the same but a bit stronger but also has interlocking edges so won't be using them as I would need to cut all of those flush.
I have read about your Hebel cracking however given it was on a mobile installation and one slab, that would be far weaker and prone to stresses than a fixed installation with 2 panels. Moving anything is a HUGE stress factor especially on a trailer. I will also be using calsil board on top of the hebel for insulation.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Also just realised that the Hebel blocks are solid and I have reo rod in my concrete so that's not going to work.
I could use Hebel blocks for the other structures though but if I have to pay to get Connex blocks delivered I might as well order the whole lot.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

and I just also discovered that due to the spacings they used in the Connex stretcher block, the interior cross supports will interfere with my reo bars ^^
Should be able to get around that by using the end units on those blocks though.

edit: Just rang the Boral factory here in Brisbane. Seems they stopped making Connex here a few years ago and after Austral Masonry bought them out they didn't restart manufacturing.

So I either need an alternative or to have an order shipped interstate :S

edit2: no luck at all the Connex bricks are not available anywhere Gah.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

You could cut off the reo.... Or still holes through the hebelNot very hard to do. But I would use ticket than 75mm blocks I used 150... Blocks.

I was also thinking of incorporating some reo myself

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Oh also..

H E III
EVEN 1200 is a long way. I'm struggling with 600 depth.I II lacks strength. Also using metal stops the need for a centre support getting in the way and is not needed when metal is used.

[applor]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Yeah I'm leaning towards using bond beams now and finished blocks for the base.

Brissie: where did you buy your bond beams from and how much were they (and specs)?
Also, do they manufacture hebel powerpanel in custom thickness? 120mm thick powerpanel would be perfect for the new plan I am formulating. Otherwise I may have to pour a suspended slab.

[david s]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

If you reduce the span by cantileverig the Hebel over the front, back and sides it will increase the strength enormously and you may be able to do away with the centre pier. Regarding the Hebel degrading from heat, this will not be an issue if you have some cal sil board between it and the floor. Likewise a 10 mm gap will be adequately bridged by the cal sil

[brissie]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Yeah I'm leaning towards using bond beams now and finished blocks for the base.

Brissie: where did you buy your bond beams from and how much were they (and specs)?
Also, do they manufacture hebel powerpanel in custom thickness? 120mm thick powerpanel would be perfect for the new plan I am formulating. Otherwise I may have to pour a suspended slab.

I purchased the 150 bond blocks and standard 150 blocks from two different garden supply places. I was given a reasonable price for most of the blocks at one place, but they did not have many "knock out bond beam" blocks, so rang around and sourced the rest from another place. They cost 20% more from memory.

I purchased a cheap tile cutter wet saw, that can just cut through the wall thickness of the blocks, about $80 at Bunnings. A diamond wet saw cuts blocks like they are butter. Its easy to do, slow and steady.

My base is 1200 * 1200, and cut the every second end block to fit, and make up the gap, because I used 150/140 mm blocks and not 200 blocks.

I also bent deformed bar around the perimeter for re-enforcement of the bond beam. Bond beams make it strong and it holds everything together.

90 mm internal wall to make the H shape, The internal wall used brick ties to bond with the external walls. I can't see why you can't dry stack standard blocks. Use a construction adhesive to stick them together.

A 1200 * 1200 base size is not big, and its unlikely to get out of level if the first course is okay to start with. You may need to knock off any big defect lumps or bums with a hammer.

Fill the corners and bond bean with concrete, and your done. You could finish it by using the bagging technique I used, or render it.

Hope the info helps.

Steve.

Edit, my mud map. Use as guide only, it was used just so I could get my head around it. Note that half the half blocks are actually about three quarter, cut blocks to fit the gap. Only the sides need cutting. the front does not.

Edit2:
Sorry, correction my base is 1500*1200, but the idea is the same.

[brissie]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Applor FYI,

just a howto...

Bond beam blocks are known as "knock out bond beam blocks", for a reason. The blocks have the central section cast with gaps. This allows the weak section to be knocked out. The bit that is knocked out is used to fill the core, so concrete is not wasted and fills the entire column.

Note is practice you may need to add a bit more mud (plaster/render) to seal the vertical column, so when you concrete the beam you do not wast concrete. Only the corner columns need to be filled with concrete

Note I purchased most of the bond beam blocks from Centenary, because they had them in stock, but where more expensive then other places for standard blocks. It pays to shop around.

Grey Besser Blocks | Centenary Landscaping Supplies | Brisbane, Queensland

[Greenman]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I think the design of base needs to be updated. A bond beam will work fine if properly reinforced without the heavy angle iron supports. There is an element of overdesign that is not required in all situations. It can be overthought.

IMHO

[brissie]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

I think the design of base needs to be updated. A bond beam will work fine if properly reinforced without the heavy angle iron supports. There is an element of overdesign that is not required in all situations. It can be overthought.

IMHO

Yes, I agree Geenman. Keep it simple.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

If you reduce the span by cantileverig the Hebel over the front, back and sides it will increase the strength enormously and you may be able to do away with the centre pier. Regarding the Hebel degrading from heat, this will not be an issue if you have some cal sil board between it and the floor. Likewise a 10 mm gap will be adequately bridged by the cal sil

HI Applor

This is what I did with my build.

Also I priced the 120mm thick powerpanels and it was quite pricy compared to the 75mm panels.

[oasiscdm]

Re: New (2nd) build in Brisbane

Hi Applpr

Forgot to ask is oven a kit?