My sourdough attempt

[Outeniqua]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Hello Jay and Faith

Thanks again for the insight and your comments.

Faith, I have to agree with you when you say that the mouse holes are a forming issue when you guessed that after the dough is divided it is not patted down to release the big air pockets before forming the loaf. I will do some research and this will be my one change for my next bake. I will try and keep it simple and make one change at a time so that I can see the change/improvement. I have to say that for me the mouse holes was not a problem.

For steam I added about 400ml of boiling water to my cast iron pot with lava rocks. This immediately generated a lot of steam, but obviously only when the loaves were loaded. I will search around and investigate other steam injection systems. It will probably make a big difference if I can add a little more water to the pot during the first five minutes of the bake.

Faith, thanks for the offer for further advice. I will certainly ask for more directions as I go along.

Lastly, I just have to mention that these breads really taste wonderful. For other people considering to experiment with sourdough I can honestly say that it is really worth the effort. I really enjoy the whole process.

Regards

Abrie

[texassourdough]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Hi Abrie!

Changing one thing at a time really helps when figuring out what happened...

400 ml of water should be enough. Load fast and get the door closed fast. Maybe mop just before loading also. Do not open the door after closing for about 15 to 20 minutes. Your color is close to adequate humidity. You aren't looking for much...

Hang in there.
Jay

[Outeniqua]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Hi Guys

Attached a pic of this weekend's bake. My best result yet!

Regards

Abrie

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Now that is just beautiful!!!

Nice job but now you need to remove the "attempt" from your sourdough. I think you've got it.

Faith

[texassourdough]

Re: My sourdough attempt

I will ditto Faith... One of the earliest lessons I learned in artisanal loaves is to seek a loaf with three colors - a darker brown for the ears, a mid brown for the crust and a lighter brown in the rip. You have three colors but you don't have ears. The ONLY thing I can criticize is the lack of ears. That is a slashing (deeper or at an angle) issue. And it is VERY MINOR. That is one beautiful loaf! Great expansion, good proofing!, great color (though I am of the dark side and would bake it another five minutes or so!). (Faith probably thinks it is slightly over by her taste! I highlight that to point out it is well within tolerance! Ultimately it is about what YOU like and want and that is why I LOVE kibitzing on loaves with Faith for we are on opposite extremes!) My other criticism is that I want to see the crumb for that is a telling factor in the making of the bread. I am willing to guess it looks pretty good for the outside looks good!

Keep at it. The more you bake the more consistent and opinionated you will (should) become. And once you have opinions you can work toward them and learn even more and make bread even more to YOUR specifications and desires.

Great work!
Jay

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Hay Elmer (Jay),

WHAT???

(that's what the loaf said)

No Ears.....

[Outeniqua]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Hi Faith and Jay

Thank you for the comments. I must say that I am really glad that I started down the sourdough road a few months ago. It is really satisfying and the bread is awesome. I will keep going and keep you posted.

Regards

Abrie

[texassourdough]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Hi Abrie!

Glad you joined the sour side. One beauty is that even the worst loaves usually taste very good to great. The only exception (to me) is burned beyond recognition (pretty harrd to achieve unless you go to the hospital or shopping while baking) or leave the salt out (and even then you can make croutons).

Haven't left the salt out yet? Don't worry, you will - someday - unless you are a fanatic mis en place person and even then salt can get overlooked! Everybody who has baked for long has done it - except maybe Faith! )

Looking forward to your next batch!

Been traveling...gotta feed my beasties TODAY - they are HUNGRY!!
Jay

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: My sourdough attempt

LOL ...just gotta give that little poke, huh Jay.

Just for your information NO I have not left the salt out (yet).

But, I have had other senior moments. Like mixing up the identity of my pre -ferments. I built both rye and W/W sourdough pre-ferments and mixed up the markers and for the life of me could not tell the difference between the two.

Or the loaf of bread that came out looking like a bar bell. (steam issue)


The mental list goes on and on of things that I did wrong... but I have never left the salt out.....(yet).

Some other disaster things that could happen ( I take precautions to prevent)... Forget to pull out your seed starter (big Yikes) or some people have used the house oven to proof the loaf or bulk ferment... then the oven get's turned on.(did that once with a pizza dough)

We all have good baking days and not so good days...but in the end it all eats well and I enjoy the time that I have to devote to baking.

[texassourdough]

Re: My sourdough attempt

I left salt out twice - years ago now but quite memoable! Especially the day I was counting on bread for a party - it was measured but I had a phone call and it got set in the wrong place and... I haven't done it since! (And certainly hope this didn't jinx me to do it again!)

I can tell my rye from anything else by its activity. It will bubble faster than any wheat based leaven I have worked with. Keeping two white wheat starters was a real headache for contamination was a big deal to me at the time. They eventually got more alike and I gave up and consolidated to one. I keep two starters... one rye, one white. And I will make most any bread with either depending on my mood.

Hope I didn't jinx anyone on the salt!
Jay

[vtsteve]

Re: My sourdough attempt

For the first couple of years, one of my key tools was an 8.5x11 paper with "ADD THE SALT!" written on it; it would go right on top of the dough bowl.

[Faz]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Great looking bread in this thread

I must confess to missing out the salt twice early when I first started making sourdough - I blame the fact that we don't measure all the ingredients out at once (that's my excuse and I am sticking to it). No salt = incredibly bland bread!! I tend to check now if the salt has gone in following those bad experiences - hopefully I am not jinxing myself!!!

[WJW]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Looking great Abrie. It's a fun deal.

I like to do a lot of bread and I have a relatively low thermal mass oven (2.5 inch hearth), so heat management is critical for me.

As far as temp...I concur with what others have said. I shoot for a hearth temp of 545-550 for my first bake on a bake day. (That is the loading temp and is reached long after I have mopped the oven clean.) The roof temp will frequently be 30 to 40 degrees warmer in that first bake. That is for smaller loaves which I do first...typically one pound loaves. The second and third bakes are typically two pound loaves and the loading temp is lower...say 510-515 for second bake....maybe 490 for third bake. I usually let the oven come back up to temp for about ten to fifteen minutes between bakes.

For me it is KEY to do a fire the night before a bake. That has been the biggest improvement/realization for me in proper heat management. The way I do it (FWIW) is to light a big fire around ten pm. Around midnight spread the coals all around the hearth, stack some bricks to mostly block the oven door. Go to bed. Wake up around eight and start my bulk ferment. Move to the oven. The deep masonry will be fully charged to 550 plus degrees. The surface masonry will be cooler because the door was partially open to the night air...say 375-400 degrees. Immediately light a medium sized fire. As is starts to burn down (say ninety minutes later) I spread the coals all over the hearth.

By the time I'm done with a two hour bulk ferment and twenty minutes forming loaves, the oven is ready to be mopped out and allowed to rest/equalize/and come down for another two hours as the loaves proof.

During this two hour period the oven hearth surface will typically drop from the mid six hundred range to the mid five hundred range as the shallow levels of masonry equalize with the deep levels. I typically only partially cover the oven entry for the first hour to speed cooling a bit. By the time the dough is ready to go in the deep masonry levels will be 600-620, the surface will be forty to fifty degrees cooler. Having the deep masonry hotter than the surface is key for me to be able to re-charge between bakes.

I don't introduce steam, but I uniformly do large bakes...13 to 16 loaves per bake...so there is plenty of steam in the oven. Bakes are 25 to 35 minutes long depending on loading temp.

Heat loading the oven as described above will allow me to do three bakes of thirteen loaves each on a single firing cycle. When the third bake is done the oven is down around 440 when the last bake comes out. It will jump back up to over 450 within twenty minutes or so.

[bing]

Re: My sourdough attempt

i need some recipe for bread. can find some simple tutorial and recipe.
is this recipe standard dough for bread ?
"The night before the bake I added 100 gr (3.5 ounces) water and 100 gr flour to 50 gr of my active starter. Left that overnight and the next morning added water and flour for a 75% hydration final dough. Mixed and added 2% salt after 30 min. Kneaded dough for 10 min. Stretched and folded 4 times over the next 90 min. Divided into 4 breads of approximately 700 gr (25 ounces) and left for final fermentation of 2.5 hours. I then baked these in my pizza oven for about 25 minutes. Starting temp of oven 220 degrees Celcius (428 degrees Fahrenheit). I added steam when I put the loaves in the oven."

[SCChris]

Re: My sourdough attempt

Serf,
Try this one for simple;
By weight
1 part levain
2 parts water
3 parts flour
add 1% salt of the total dough weight, the total weight of the levain, water and flour.

Mix the water and the levain,
mix the flour and salt,
mix the wet and the dry until all of the dry is moistened,
Autolyse for 90 minutes
Stretch and fold aggressive enough to form a dough ball
Stretch and fold twice more at 30 minute intervals
pre shape at 3 hours after the start of the autolyse
Shape 30 minutes later
bake in 2 to 3 hours or when the dough is ready.
Pre-heat the oven to 500F and lower the temp to 450F when the bread goes into the oven. I use a cast iron cloche covered for 20 minutes and finish the loaf uncovered, and this baking is done in my kitchen oven. The recipe will work fine in the WFO just remember to add steam to the bake to develop the crust.

Chris