spent grain bread

[texassourdough]

Re: spent grain bread

What bothers me about your loaves, Chris, more than the darkness is the color. It could be simply lighting or a lighter baking but it looks more like overproofed which gives a sort of blah color that I don't like. Reason is that overproofing exhausts the sugars so the loaf doesn't brown properly. Now, note: I am not saying they are overproofed, just that they look like it! You had multiple problems so we can't guarantee I am right! Yes, going a little longer at a higher temp can help push the loaf a bit darker.

NOTE: in my long discussion with Eric on his sourdough failure, the reason I want your base loaf to be 100% reliable is so that when you change the oven temp profile you knwo IT was the source of the change. By having your base bread reliable you can say, gee, I know I am a bit overproofed so when the color and loaf volume are a bit off you expected it. It reinforces your Understanding!

I haven't had any problems with bannetons with my spent grain. Unfortunately my sources promise spent grain and seldom come through so I don't have a lot of experience. In my experience the spent grain loaf is pretty well behaved so I would not flour the bannetons heavily. When I do have doughs that give me concern I try to make sure the gaps between the alder canes are full of flour. But that is all I do. It is usually enough but every once in a while it is not! And, to deal with that is interesting. Splat and I chat offline from time to time and we both tend to find that sticky doughs that don't release from the banneton usually still have good oven spring and loaf shape. (My most recent Tartine loaves did not!) So it is NOT mandatory that a sticky loaf equals a flawed loaf. If you have good dough development the seemingly rough treatment of being rudely pulled from the banneton does not equal disaster.

WRT how I apply flour, I simply do it by hand and then sort of swirl it around to try to get it in the cracks. When I use plastic bannetons I tend to spray it with Pam and then apply flour/rice flour. Rice flour is a magical releasing agent for dough (bread or pizza) and deserves some attention. I tend to hate the stuff for I think it gives ugly crusts but I need to put more effort into brushing it off!

Spent grain is one of my very favorite loaves so keep at it!
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Jay, I like mine darker as well. With the Pain Ancient, the color is just part of the higher heat baking, IMO. That the SG loafs enter a 425F oven and are baked at 350F, is making getting color more of a problem. I wonder if keeping the 425 for 5 minutes would help. I need to get a handle using the banneton more effectively. I really beat up the loafs extracting them. Jay, How do you apply the flour to the banneton? I just floured the heck out of them, should I have misted spray oil and then dusted?

John, let me know how your brewing goes.

Chris

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: spent grain bread

Dwight,

Cool site. Great primer for the new guy looking to get into the hobby.

I'd like to learn how to use my spent yeast to make Vegemite. I tried it for the first time a few months ago and just polished off my first little $9 jar.

[dwightr8]

Re: spent grain bread

A couple of things. If anyone is interested in learning more about the brewing process a good site can be found at:

How to Brew - By John Palmer - Contents

Section 3 of the book is especially pertinent to the spent grain.

The other thing I have read is some people are using some of the sweet wort in place of water and sweeteners. Seems like a really good idea to add some interesting flavors to the bread.

Cheers,

Dwight

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: spent grain bread

Chris,

Thanks for posting the pic. It won't be long before you get the process nailed.

I have committed to resuming brewing once the oven is finished, and spent grain bread will be high on the priority list.

[texassourdough]

Re: spent grain bread

They look overproofed based on crust color and shape - though as you suggest rough handling and sticking can contribute to the shape. Crust color could be only moderate baking - I like it darker but...

Keep at it! Spent grain bread is a real keeper!
Jay

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Sigh, My first attempt had its ups and downs.

On the upside, I’m comfortable with the techniques presented and have a much better idea of what this bread is and how I would use it. I didn’t get the oven spring that I expected and I think I would have had better results using loaf pans rather than either a floured banneton or linen in a bowl to proof. The high fiber content of the bread and that I had degassing due to stickage, held the crumb structure down below where I had imagined the bread would end up. I also expected that I would have seen more browning on top and that flavor would be sweeter. I used Agave syrup not honey have made some difference in browning and sweetness. I also included vegetable oil for moisture. I’ll give it another go when I get some loaf pans.

Chris

PS John, you are correct regarding Wort. Once the liquid is drained from the grain it's Green Wort.

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Thanks John, As I understand it the liquid just off of the grain is tea, then after heating to near boiling and adding hops, it becomes wort.. Heck, I don't know.

I post pictures tomorrow..

Chris

PS I suppose it could be that the point that it becomes wort, is when yeast is added. Like I said, Heck, I don't know..

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: spent grain bread

Chris,

Let us know how the bread comes out. It sounds scrumptious! Funny, I went over to pick up PR's Whole Grain Breads yesterday at the Borders Books (Chapter 11) closing sale yesterday but discovered it for $10 less on Amazon so put it back. I had no idea there was a spent grain recipe in it.

If you continue to make spent grain breads here's some brewing terminology for you.

Conversion - The process of converting starch (barley) chains to sugar chains by placing raw, cracked malted barley into ph-corrected water and holding this Mash at a steady target temperature until enzymes have completed the conversion.

Lauter - The process of straining warm, ph-corrected rinse water through the converted mash in order to extract the now-liquid barley pulp. The leftover grain husks are what makes up the mass of spent grain.

Wort - (Rhymes with squirt) The liquid volume resulting from rinsing your grains. This sweet (chocolate-like in Stouts) sugar-laden liquid base for beer must have something bitter added to it by boiling or you wouldn't like to drink it.

Looking forward to some bread pics!

John

[SCChris]

Re: spent grain bread

Thanks Elizabeth, for getting this thread started!

I’ve been feeling like a one note orchestra baking Pain Rustic. I always get rave reviews, but needed a reason to push further into other breads. I have PR’s Whole Grain Breads and understand the concepts, so your thread gave me the addition kick in the @$$ to find a source of spent grain. The husband of my wife’s BFF is an advanced home brewer and has some professional connections into the local micro brewery scene, so I placed a call. Karsen, was set to start a batch on Saturday morning and offered to pass along the spent grain. I accepted the offer without reservation. My wife and I arrived just after he had drained off the liquid, tea?, from the grain. OMG! My wife’s impression of the smell was to compare it to something close to chocolate. I went home with about 3 to 4 gallons of spent grain. Last night I put four 3 cup portions of it in the freezer, this morning I made a 4X batch of PR’s recipe. I know I’ll need four loafs, three to pass on one for home. I should do the baking tomorrow afternoon.

The first photo shows, from left to right, The soaker, the Biga and the Spent Grain. The second shows the SG and Biga in the fridge.



Chris

[dwightr8]

Re: spent grain bread

I am very interested too. They one thing that pops to mind it that the grain I use is cracked/crushed whole grain and has whole or almost whole husks throught the grain (helps the water flow through it when brewing beer). Does all of this go into the mix?

Cheers
James

I've kind of wonered the same thing. I found this:

Green-Savvy: Recipe: Spent grain bread

It sounds like they just put it all in. Seems a bit odd but I guess I'll just have to try it next time I brew.

Dwight

[bimbo]

Re: spent grain bread

I am very interested too. They one thing that pops to mind it that the grain I use is cracked/crushed whole grain and has whole or almost whole husks throught the grain (helps the water flow through it when brewing beer). Does all of this go into the mix?

Cheers
James

[dwightr8]

Re: spent grain bread

Absolutely marvelous. It was spent grain from an oatmeal stout, and the bread was a lovely dark rye color, and moist and flavorful. I was initially worried that it would be bitter, which is my experience of how beer tastes (this is why I don't drink it!) but it wasn't at all.

I am insisting that Wilson keep on brewing. I don't care if he gets the biggest beer belly this side of the Mississippi, I must have spent grains!

If any of you have access to a microbrewery or have a source, grab it!

Hi,

I just ran across this thread and being a homebrewer and homebaker find the concept of merging the two perfect. Can you give me any more info on how you use the spent grain in your bread?

TIA,

Dwight

[egalecki]

Re: spent grain bread

I'm thinking that maybe I'll pan the bread next time to see what happens. I can't wait until Wilson makes his Belgian Abbey Ale to see what that grain does!

Here they are:

[Chef]

Re: spent grain bread

Can't wait to see your pics!!!