82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Yorkie,

You are on the right track. Here are some pics to help you. You should do the top dead center brick of the arch then work you way down. Proabably should cut and fit complete arch before going to much farther with your dome courses.

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Lets try this again perhaps this time it will make more sense. This is how I did my arch/ dome intersection.

Note that the inside of the upper arch follows the contour of the inner oven.

Also note the flat spot on the inside of the oven arch at the floor. As my next redo I would cut that corner off because it catches ash and takes some attention to clean out for bread

[yorkshireknight]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Between replies I was finishing off the course and trying to figure how to make the semi template thingy.

Many thanks Faith for your lovely pictures I see how you've fitted the courses on to the arch, your oven looks huge in the pictures is this the new one.?

Russell, You are of course right about finishing the arch maybe when I have all the arch bricks all cut I will see the angle I need to make without use of this half template.

As you see from the 2nd picture I tried to make the template but its higher than my arch as I did not take into account the board and height of IT castor and couldn't work out how to correct it.

However your great outline on picture 1 gives me a better idea.
Looking at this picture my IT doesn't quite reach the arch SO, would I be right in thinking that the angle you drew would be slightly further out from the arch to meet the IT?

With regards to joint lines, whilst it is recommended to avoid them, Looking at picture 3 it seems that the arch so far has a continuous line. Looking at other pictures it seems the case, that mine is no different to others. Maybe the line will start to move now the arch is getting higher?

I can see by picture 4 that the courses attaching to the arch would be cut at a slight angle inwards for a better close fit. Am I on the right track here?

I am now at a standstill with the oven as I am awaiting new diamond discs and next week we are back in the Uk for a couple of weeks.
Perhaps my sore back will get chance to mend

[yorkshireknight]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Ok, back from wet and cold UK and back to the oven.

Have done the 3rd row today, but ran into a couple of problems, I took several bricks off the course to make it easier to work but found I was then putting too much mortar on the side of brick and by the time I realised you can see in the pictures the inverted Vs also I have 2 joints in line, hope it doesn't effect the structure too much. (Photo 3)

I am still struggling with the arch angles for the transition, sorry guys, I know you have given me pointers and I have read and read about the string or IT to measure but its still not clicking.
as you can see I have cut the bricks in readiness for closing the arch but still unsure how to work out the angle to receive the following rows.(photos 1&2)

I cut another arch brick for the next row using the string method and quadruple checked it again and again but it is still short of the IT and I can't figure out why. (Photo 4)

I am thinking of putting in the fourth row and see if it clicks or I shall wing it when it comes to closing the arch, however if the It does not meet my arch top that would possibly mean that the transition bricks will overhang slightly over the inside of the arch bricks.
Would this be a great problem to the stability/building of the oven.

Once again my apologies to those who have tried to show me the way.....

Paul

[mrchipster]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Take a look at the edited photos.

First photo has 2 curved lines, they represent the cuts for the top of the bricks on the arch.

The bricks you have mortared in for the arch appear to be correct. The uncut bricks need the surface to be a vector from the center of the oven floor out to the outside of the dome.

Your IT will show this vector or a simple string will also show it.

Because I am doing this on an ipad I can only do one photo per post so the second photo will be described on the next post.

[mrchipster]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

The second photo tries to show the interior and top cut vectors for the arch bricks, the line that goes up to the right is the vector tobe followed for the inner side of the arch bricks, the line that points up to the left is the vector from the center of the floor to the outside of the oven.

[yorkshireknight]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Hi Chip, I was just reading your build for the millionth time trying to get my head around this vector and string bit.
Many thanks for your diagram buddy.
What I am most apprehensive about (apart from being baffled) is:
as you can see my IT doesn't swivel.
I tied a piece of string to the centre of IT and marked off 16" (int diam) and another mark another 4 1/2 inches further and tried to take a line on the top centre arch brick.
But what Im baffled is, because my row hasn't got to this height yet, how do I know how high to elevate the string up the brick?

I look forward to your next post Chip. Many Thanks.

[yorkshireknight]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Thanks for the 2nd diagram Chip, SO, I can draw a line with my IT/string for the inner measurement 16" and do I then just mark off a further brick length (4 1/2 inches ) up the string and then mark the brick at that point? Like lining up sites on a rifle for instance.

One further question Chip, The vector going to the right, is that marked from the centre point of my IT(which usually points to the middle of the brick rows OR is it marked by the top side where the top of the IT rest on the brick top?
Hope that's clear for you buddy and you get my drift.

Once again your invaluable help is much appreciated.

PS hows the weather in Minnesota? my sister and brother in law live in Loveland Colorado, not sure how far that is from you but they have had it bad with the flooding there, he works up in Estes Park and the road up to it has been completly washed away up the Gorge alongside the Big Thompson River. Hope your keeping dry buddy.

[mrchipster]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Thanks for the 2nd diagram Chip, SO, I can draw a line with my IT/string for the inner measurement 16" and do I then just mark off a further brick length (4 1/2 inches ) up the string and then mark the brick at that point? Like lining up sites on a rifle for instance.

Not sure what you mean? If by 16 inch if that is the inner radius of your oven then correct.

One further question Chip, The vector going to the right, is that marked from the centre point of my IT(which usually points to the middle of the brick rows OR is it marked by the top side where the top of the IT rest on the brick top?
Hope that's clear for you buddy and you get my drift.

That vector is the shape of the interior of the oven, the brick locating and supporting piece of the IT. Both the center of the brick and the top intersecting points of the IT positioned are close to the same as the inner radius of the dome, either one would be close enough for this kind of brick work.

Once again your invaluable help is much appreciated.

PS hows the weather in Minnesota? my sister and brother in law live in Loveland Colorado, not sure how far that is from you but they have had it bad with the flooding there, he works up in Estes Park and the road up to it has been completly washed away up the Gorge alongside the Big Thompson River. Hope your keeping dry buddy.

Just medium rain here in Minnesota today, the storm remnants not the real storms they got in Colorado. We are almost 800 miles away from there.

[mrchipster]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

But what Im baffled is, because my row hasn't got to this height yet, how do I know how high to elevate the string up the brick?

I look forward to your next post Chip. Many Thanks.

You can use the previous (lower) adjacent brick as a guide. Just make sure you have enough brick left at the inner edge to maintain the interior of the dome and a landing surface for the dome bricks that will go on top of the cut portion of the arch.

The arch bricks will tend to reach further back into the dome just like the dome bricks have a smaller radius from the center when measured from straight up, even though they still maintainable true 16 inch radius from the floor.

[yorkshireknight]

Re: 82cm (32&quot Corner in Bulgaria

A EUREKA MOMENT, then a COMEDY OF ERRORS,

After Chips assistance (again)and seeing Utah Beavers template, I set off to my pile of bricks this morning with a positive outlook.

I took a thin size brick and using a piece of string marked the points for cutting of the centre arch brick, I duly cut the brick on the markings and on applying my IT to it afterwards it fit like a glove. EUREKA I cried..........

My euphoria was soon dampened when I placed the template on the real arch brick, marked and cut only to find I had cut the damn thing the wrong way round, I also noticed that the arch bricks which I had previously tapered ready for the Vector measuring were not long enough by about 3/4 inch.

So anyone reading this who may adopt this arch transition model in the future, when laying out your arch bricks make them longer than you think before cutting. also when using templates make sure you have it the right way round.

All that being said I will have to redo the centre arch brick, the others which are a tad short I will have to live with, it will mean the overlaying bricks across the arch are slightly longer than the arch bricks but I reckon a little cement under there will make it smooth.

I am still on the fourth row and will close my arch when completing this point on my next day at the brick pile, until then thanks everyone for getting me this far I may not be the brightest of builders but I do try.

Pictures to follow in next post.

[mrchipster]

Re: 82cm (32&quot Corner in Bulgaria

A EUREKA MOMENT, then a COMEDY OF ERRORS,

After Chips assistance (again)and seeing Utah Beavers template, I set off to my pile of bricks this morning with a positive outlook.

I took a thin size brick and using a piece of string marked the points for cutting of the centre arch brick, I duly cut the brick on the markings and on applying my IT to it afterwards it fit like a glove. EUREKA I cried..........

My euphoria was soon dampened when I placed the template on the real arch brick, marked and cut only to find I had cut the damn thing the wrong way round, I also noticed that the arch bricks which I had previously tapered ready for the Vector measuring were not long enough by about 3/4 inch.

So anyone reading this who may adopt this arch transition model in the future, when laying out your arch bricks make them longer than you think before cutting. also when using templates make sure you have it the right way round.

All that being said I will have to redo the centre arch brick, the others which are a tad short I will have to live with, it will mean the overlaying bricks across the arch are slightly longer than the arch bricks but I reckon a little cement under there will make it smooth.

I am still on the fourth row and will close my arch when completing this point on my next day at the brick pile, until then thanks everyone for getting me this far I may not be the brightest of builders but I do try.

Pictures to follow in next post.

The inner arch bricks being a little short is not a serious issue, the addition of mortar will not hold it will just fall off after several fires, you might want to take an angle grinder to the dome bricks at the intersect to make the transition smoother as there will be plenty of mass at that location due to the intersect with the arch.

[yorkshireknight]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

Thanks for that advice Chip,
would I be best making it smoother when the bricks are set or before?

I attach photos of my 'warts and all'.

Photo 1 shows my elation of cutting the perfect template.
Photo 2 shows my big mistake !!
Photo 3 & 4 shows the gap I have left myself with.

So am I right in thinking that the end of top brick will be cut at an angle to meet with the arch brick?
I think your right Chip that putting cement under this part would eventually fall out so cutting seems to be the solution to get me out of my blues.

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

York,

Oh well, anyone one of us who said we had a perfect build is lying . Looks like you you only neednto do four or so bricks. However you could adjust the angle dome brick from the top to the bottom to match closer to mating with the arch brick. In this area no one will ever see or know except you and us guys and gals on the forum . Your choice.

[mrchipster]

Re: 82cm Corner Underway in Bulgaria

I would probably remake brick in the second photo because it seems to be much to short. I believe if you start with a whole brick you will have plenty of material to fill the void. If all of your remaining arch bricks are that shape then adjust with the dome bricks as they are placed, cut them close to the desired shape just before mortaring them in. Grinding in that area after the dome is finished would difficult.

Finish the arch at this point, and bring the dome up course by course, do not prepare any of the dome bricks that meet the arch until the previous course is complete. It is difficult to predict the shape of those dome bricks that intersect the arch until you are at that exact point.

Remember to shape and set the brick next or on the arch first and adjust the next brick or two to maintain your dome shape. Cutting the dome bricks that contact the arch are more difficult to cut if done last as you will have complicated angles to work with.

Russell's advice is sound. No one that sees the oven completed will ever see the flaws you know are there, and to them it will be amazing that it even exists, and you made it.

Keep on keep'in on. Nice build...

As an example here is one of my more visible brick laying flaws that becomes real obvious whe the sun is just right...but no one has ever mentioned to me they have seen this. They only comment on how nice the stairs and wall look.