36" in Seattle

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

As to those tiles, Liquid Nails is the bees knees dude! That stuff would glue jello to jelly.

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: 36" in Seattle

I like that slightly noisy look.

Hey Keb,,

Sounds great,, then you did a great job,, At the time I was too unsure to put any kind of texture in,, Im thinking now about some mosaic,, Love those tiles you put in...

Cheers
Mark

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Did you finish smooth ? or Sponge ??

Troweled, and not with particularly zealous precision. It has little "dunes" and other textual marks in it. I like that slightly noisy look...plus it's the easiest to achieve. HA!

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: 36" in Seattle

...I admit, it does prescribe some leeway in the water, perhaps I was within the margin, but at the upper end for some reason.

Keb, One more note,, I think I read it on their website, They recommended adding more water ie: for basement waterproofing so you could apply one or two thin coats, thus "making it easier to spread and performing more as waterproofing as in a basement rather than as a structural supplement"

though they are very "loose" with a lot of their descriptions and terms
Cheers
Mark

[Raffy]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Uuuuuuuuugh. I worked my ass off this weekend, probably put in 8-10 hours each day trying to finish the oven and in the end I didn't quite make it. I expect I'll have the third and final stucco coat done tomorrow, Tuesday at the latest.

No in-progress pics because the partially done second coat "looks done" and I want to unveil it.

Cheers!

Very eager to see the finished oven. Hope you can post the pics soon

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Good Work Keb,,

I always said it was easy,,,, Just still is a lot of work, especially with all the ins and outs of your build... Did you finish smooth ? or Sponge ?? Looking forward to seeing the pics
Cheers
Mark

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Finished the third and final stucco coat this evening (minus some touching up I'll do this weekend). Too dark for photos unfortunately.

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Uuuuuuuuugh. I worked my ass off this weekend, probably put in 8-10 hours each day trying to finish the oven and in the end I didn't quite make it. I expect I'll have the third and final stucco coat done tomorrow, Tuesday at the latest.

No in-progress pics because the partially done second coat "looks done" and I want to unveil it.

Cheers!

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Did the SBC have the fortifier in it or do you buy it separately and add it?

No, I used Quikrete Quikwall SBC, which comes in gray and white. I got white thinking it would be easier to color. The fortifier is a liquid which you dilute 50/50 and then use as the water...although I had to add additional water over the directions...I admit, it does prescribe some leeway in the water, perhaps I was within the margin, but at the upper end for some reason.

And do you know if it's regular "stucco" or cement coloring you add to it or is it some other kind of color?

Well, I have two now: 1lb from a guy on ebay and 3.5lbs (I haven't actually measured that, it's just what they say they gave me) from Salmon Bay. In both cases it generic iron oxide powder "cement coloring". I'm not sure there is such a thing as stucco color. Anything that is portland based is pretty much all the same substance from a chemical point of view. Quikwall is 18lbs portland in a 50lbs bag, important to know for estimating color needs since it is a function of the portland, not the entire mix, usually 5%-10% color to portland by weight, so .9lbs-1.8lbs color per 50lbs Quikwall bag.

Also: 4 posts ago you mentioned something about the pizza temps and the floor: Do you find that the oven floor charges better when the logs are burning to the side and facing the oven floor? Is the oven floor actually cooler directly under the pile of coals vs the fire to the side? I'm really appreciating the details you keep on your build and firing techniques.

I have had a very hard time "profiling" my oven's behavior. I can't say that at X minutes the dome is A degrees, the side is B degrees and the floor is C degrees. I just haven't been that good about it. I fire the oven till the dome clears (90-120 minutes), long before which my IR thermometer consistently maxes out (>1000F) on the dome and the sides. I shove the fire to the side, rake and brush the floor, and take a reading, usually revealing 650-800. I admit, it's a very loose figure, I really haven't learned what temperature the floor is at when I first clear the fire to the side. There remains the question of whether I can confidently get the floor up to a really high temperature by exposing it and keeping the fire hot on the side (to press heat down into the newly exposed floor). I must confess that when I tried this last weekend I either forgot to measure the floor before starting the pizzas, or forgot what the result was, so I don't know what temperature the floor was at when I started cooking (heck, maybe it cooled off, I don't remember!). Since I have only tried that technique once (continuing to fire from the side with the floor bare before starting to cook) I can't say I have established much of a pattern yet.

What I can say is that having experimented with that technique once, the pizzas cooked more quickly and the crust was less tough...but I am also getting better at shaping the dough, so maybe the crust was only less tough because it was less overworked.

Bottom line, my data set is small and my variance it too high to state any conclusions yet. I intend to continue with this method however. I believe the coals, despite being 1000, are simultaneously insulating the hearth. Coals are a very good insulator, which is why you can walk on them bare foot and can hold them in your bare hand. So I can easily believe that while the top of a chunk of coal is 1000, the bottom might be 600.

[Dino_Pizza]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Keith, did the SBC have the fortifier in it or do you buy it separately and add it? And do you know if it's regular "stucco" or cement coloring you add to it or is it some other kind of color? (btw: sorry about your expensive ebay transaction, I agree, support the local company when you can). Now that I've put most of my stone facade on my oven, the concrete blocks visible in the storage areas looking particularly ugly and I want to cover it.

Also: 4 posts ago you mentioned something about the pizza temps and the floor: Do you find that the oven floor charges better when the logs are burning to the side and facing the oven floor? Is the oven floor actually cooler directly under the pile of coals vs the fire to the side? I'm really appreciating the details you keep on your build and firing techniques. Enclosure is looking pretty good.

Thanks, Dino

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

As shown in the previous post, I've finished the first stucco coat and the oven is pure white. So clean, so much potential for filth.

Anyway, this post is merely a plug for any Seattle builders. I have been using Salmon Bay concrete company in Ballard for many components of my build. I didn't initially get any cement color from them for the stucco because I didn't think to ask, so I got some on ebay. Ugh, $15 including shipping for one stinking pound. The ad was deceptive, verging on dishonest too. I think he should have sent me more than a pound.

Anyway, then I went to Salmon Bay and got three pounds for about $15, plus they're used to such large quantities that they gently scoff at small purchases, so they just threw in a pile and it's probably closer to 3.5 pounds. HA!

Salmon Bay, no shipping. Screw ebay and it's ripoffs (and shipping).

Cheers!

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

The first coat of stucco (Quikrete Quikwall Surface Bonding Cement with acrylic fortifier) is done. Trowling all those corners and edges is freaking tedious. One big flat wall would be a ton less work.

I am finding that the SBC requires considerably more water than stated on the directions. Whatever...

BTW, that was 43.75lbs of SBC, so not quite my first 50lbs bag (I have three), but it is quite thin in some spots.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 36" in Seattle

Thinner wall would certainly heat up faster while achieving maximum heat soak. I debated this as well but decided to go for maximum residual for extended cooking. I figured 2 hours!? to heat up would never work, but now I find myself allowing 3 with no problems meeting schedules.

I like to warm it up slow, both to decrease thermal shock and also allow for maximal heat soak. I also found that after hitting my temps (over 1000 on the roof, 850 wall, 650 floor), banking the fire, cleaning the floor, and adding a fresh log or too, it did not smother the fire to put the door on for 15 or 20 minutes to equalize the oven.

[kebwi]

Re: 36" in Seattle

I'm doing better in many respects. First, the oven is getting drier and drier, although I think I'm basically there. Second, I'm learning to control my fires better: to get them roaring quickly, keep them fat for the initial interval, and distribute the heat in the second interval.

We had a party last Sunday and I wanted to do better than merely clear the dome because I have discovered that by the time the dome clears my floor really hasn't soaked up the necessary heat so the pizzas don't cook fast enough, so I cleared the dome, then pushed the fire to the side, cleared off some floor space, then kept the fire alive to blast the exposed floor. The pizzas cooked much better, but that increased my approach time. On the other hand, I might experiment with my schedule, push the fire to the side before the dome fully clears on the hope that I can get the dome cleared and the floor charged together at an earlier time. I'm still figuring out the optimal usage.

If I recall I was cooking pizza about two hours after I lit the match, but I was slightly held up waiting for people to arrive. I think I will eventually get to the point where the oven is pizza-ready in ninety minutes. I don't know if I'll ever do better than that, but who knows. A good bellows would help dramatically of course.

BTW, you mention >800 as a benchmark. I scoff at you sir. My cheapo HF IR thermometer tops out somewhere in the upper 900s and my oven consistently maxes the thermometer out. It's gotta be well over 1000 on the dome and even on the sides, somewhere around 700ish on the floor, although I have to keep the fire going to keep it from dropping.

On your last question, I'm not really qualified to speculate. Would thinner bricks help? Maybe, I can't possibly know. Would more insulation help? I seriously doubt it. My oven is very very well insulated. Three inches of InsBlock under the floor, three to six inches of InsWool over the dome (three on the sides, more at the apex), another sixish inches of vermicrete all around the InsWool.

We're going to have to throw a Seattle get-together at some point.

Cheers!

[ohthetrees]

Re: 36" in Seattle

I want to second bruce's wetter is better advice. I'm making 70% hydration doughs, and they are very fast to work, and have great lift. Check out this site:
Jeff Varasano's NY Pizza Recipe
You can learn a lot about dough from this guy's experiments.

I'm thinking of building my own 36" oven, also in Seattle. I put a premium on fast heat up times. Kebwi, what is the fastest you have managed to get your oven up to cooking temp, with say a > 700? floor and > 800? dome? Do you think building with slightly thinner bricks (1/3 instead of 1/2) and lots of insulation would help heat up times?