SE Minnesota insanity

[timo]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

This is one of the coolest projects I've seen. Can't get any closer that this to the kitchen area!

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

This project has become an obsession! It's the most fun I've had in years, and I've learned new things and skills. My Christmas present to myself (last year a chain saw) just arrived, and in 15 minutes I finished cutting almost half the oven floor. This is great fun!

[ThisOldGarageNJ]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Eric,,,

Nice saw..... your build will definitely go faster now

Cheers
Mark

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Eric,,,

Nice saw..... your build will definitely go faster now

Cheers
Mark

Thank you. I struggled a little sinking this much money in the project, but the thing was on sale, and I have a bunch of other masonry projects around the house--and friends with theirs.

[cecilB]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Wow! Eric, I really want one in my kitchen, too. I'm building outside - as practice. Our kitchen will probably be the last place to get done, so I know I have plenty of time to practice - I was having visions of brick domes all over my yard - as practice.
It'll definitely be fun to watch your progress so please take tons of pictures!

Cecelia

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

This is one of the coolest projects I've seen. Can't get any closer that this to the kitchen area!

Thank you. Yeah, I was going to build an outdoor one first next to the workshop (aka, the Manhut), but then it occured to me that I would like to eat pizza too during the Minnesota winters...the ones in February when it's -30; that left only one viable "plan."

[splatgirl]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

What are you doing for make-up air? .

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

What are you doing for make-up air? .

Hello splatgirl!, and a fellow Minnesotan, I see.

The back of the thermal containment box (see photo gallery under hearth) has a fresh air intake which draws air around the cupola (the one that hasn't been built yet :0) on both sides, and the air enters the mouth of the cupola on both sides of the opening arch. Is that what you mean?

Best,
E

[splatgirl]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hi Eric
Thanks for the reply.
So can I ask how you arrived at that design? (and pulling it out of your a** is a completely legit response if that's the case. I'm an expert in that field

My outdoor WFO was a warm-up/practice and sort of a compromise. Like you, what I really want is one inside the house along with a cooking fireplace, but I'm freaked out about the ventilation issues and the more I research it, the more I'm convinced it's not going to work right without some kind of powered ventilation system.

I'm really excited to see yours come together! We're already suffering from weather/daylight restriction of WFO use despite how mild it's been...

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hi Eric
Thanks for the reply.
So can I ask how you arrived at that design? (and pulling it out of your a** is a completely legit response if that's the case. I'm an expert in that field

My outdoor WFO was a warm-up/practice and sort of a compromise. Like you, what I really want is one inside the house along with a cooking fireplace, but I'm freaked out about the ventilation issues and the more I research it, the more I'm convinced it's not going to work right without some kind of powered ventilation system.

I'm really excited to see yours come together! We're already suffering from weather/daylight restriction of WFO use despite how mild it's been...

Yes, Maam, this thing is pulled strait out of my posterior. I have a wood-burning stove in both my shop and house, and knew I would need a fresh air vent. Outside of that, one day I started digging a hole next to the house, and busted the wall out with a 13 lb sledgehammer, and poured a giant concrete monolith. At that point I was committed. I knew the general concept of what I wanted, and have solved the little engineering problems as they arose (probably a more expensive way to go in the end).

BTW, I've seen dozens of like indoor pizza ovens in Europe and even some here, which have no powered ventilation systems. As far as I could determine, no one was asphyxiating from carbon monoxide.

I look forward to cutting some brick tonight. When I get the soldiers in, I'll probably need your advice for the trapezoid angles.

Cheers,
E

[dmun]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

What I really want is one inside the house along with a cooking fireplace, but I'm freaked out about the ventilation issues and the more I research it, the more I'm convinced it's not going to work right without some kind of powered ventilation system.

A lot of this depends on the kind of house you live in. If you live in a fully sealed, hyper energy efficient modern house, you may have problems. If you live in a house like mine that leaks like a sieve, you're good to go.

This issue is discussed at some length on rumford.com, where smoking fireplaces are a big concern. It's been suggested there to put a air intake behind the refrigerator, where incoming air will be heated by the refrigerator coils, to avoid drafts and light leaks. The problem with air intakes right in the firebox of either an oven or a fireplace is that the incoming air will blow ashes around.

But, as far as powered venting is concerned, you shouldn't need it unless you have a long horizontal run on your flue, which is against code anyway. Indoor ovens have the advantage that the flue has to go through the roof, which is mostly much taller than outside ovens, and they have the temperature differential from inside to outside that promotes good draft.

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Here's what I was thinking. Fresh air would be drawn in from the vent in the rear of the fire containment box, and would circulate around the outside of the dome, and enter the dome through points just in front of the aperture. One could elevate the inlets to the dome several inches above the floor to avoid ashes being blown around.

Also, my old house leaks like a sieve

Thanks,
Eric

[trockyh]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hey Eric, you've got "$%^^s" taking on a project like this. I love it.
Keep the pictures coming.

Tom

[nissanneill]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Eric,
quite an ambitious project and you seem to be progression wonderfully.
I was looking at your planned fresh air supply for the oven, assuming that you are trying to reduce the already armed air from within your house kitchen, I see that you may need to place a door or restrict the flow of air from your kitchen, because I see that the fire will draw the air from wherever there is the least restriction, ie. straight through the front arch!
You might need to consider placing an air direction door/blind/whatever and draw the required air from around the dome and ultimately from behind (or even adjacent the chimney void). This might be an alternative ro have a couple of vents up alongside your existing outside kitchen wall rather than drag it around your dome and soldier bricks. Bearing in mind also that if this is the case, you will need to thoroughly insulate and seal your soldiers and dome to reduce the heat loss if -26˚F air is going to surround and pass your dome.
Just a thought.
Also, are you going to cut the tops off your soldiers by say 10-15˚ in order to slope your next dome course and in so reduce your mortar thickness?

Great job so far, keep it up!


Neill

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Many thanks, Neill. This has become a very involved and satisfying odyssey. I was thinking, that the fresh air would enter the front arch through two ducts, one on either side. Certainly the oven will draw air strait through the arch from the kitchen, but eventually I would expect some sort of relative vacuum, assuming that my sieve of a house isn?t as loose as I claim, and that the replacement air would be provided from the rear of the oven enclosure, and reduce the likelihood of drafts elsewhere in the house. The oven enclosure is mostly outside of the kitchen wall, and it already has a small rear door for inspection and repair, so I thought I could incorporate a vent intake in this door. The dome will have 5 inches of ceramic blanket insulation, and the air space around it, and between the fireproof inner wall of the enclosure will be 2 inches. I may have to burn extra wood during one of our typical February days as the cold intake air leeches away the heat!
I bit the bullet and bought a saw, so I shall slope the soldiers this week. Looking at others? builds, I am inspired to build a tight brick structure and use as little mortar as possible, preferably less than ? inch, with is also in keeping with local masonry fireplace codes.