SE Minnesota insanity

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

5 PM. The first of the floor bricks have been set. Finally!

[nissanneill]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hmmmm, there's the thought...get them to cut the bricks!

NO, bad move mate, unless you have a heap of them spare.
Nope, just do it and control it yourself. You can always cut a row at a time (even after hours) and then cement them into place, cut the next row and cement them. At that rate you will have your dome done in a few days.

Neill

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

I'm torn between practicality & speed, and knowing that the inspectors here walk around with micrometers in their front pockets...just kidding, but once I did have to re-dig a 220 ft long electrical service trench because it was 17 inches deep, not 18! I would like to keep my mortar joints less than 1/4 inch, so to that end I may have to do some cutting as I get higher in the dome.

Also I've found that cutting bricks is a rather pleasant, if not a little monotonous, undertaking. Watching that blade sear through the masonry makes my day job dissolve away.

On the other hand, my stomach and my friends are growing impatient for some finally decent pizza, and my girlfriend doesn't care for the big hole in my house. Hmmmm, there's the thought...get them to cut the bricks!

Best,
Eric

[nissanneill]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Eric,
you might like to check out my build as I cut my full length soldiers but not many other bricks in the dome brick rows.
It all depends on what you want. The interior of my oven doesn't have overly big joins but they do get larger the higher the row. These can be reduced with significant cutting. Although i had a professional brick saw (pics in my build) I still didn't worry as I used the poor man's mortar and have no cracks after over 2 years. The outside of the dome is buried under the insulation and is never seen except during construction. The most important thing is that it works well, holds it heat and lasts your lifetime. OR you can make it very complex with possibly hundreds of cuts and numerous more rows of bricks needed for the dome.

Neill

[Les]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Eric,

Pyramids were built without software - your approach will work just fine. God speed and good luck.

BTW, awesome saw - should be able to do great things!

Les...

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Since I bit the bullet and bought a saw, I had to say goodbye to the idea of buying some nice CAD software I've always wanted, and calculate the taper angles of the bricks the old-fashioned way, with pen, paper, and trig! Tomorrow the tops of the soldiers get lopped off.

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Many thanks, Neill. This has become a very involved and satisfying odyssey. I was thinking, that the fresh air would enter the front arch through two ducts, one on either side. Certainly the oven will draw air strait through the arch from the kitchen, but eventually I would expect some sort of relative vacuum, assuming that my sieve of a house isn?t as loose as I claim, and that the replacement air would be provided from the rear of the oven enclosure, and reduce the likelihood of drafts elsewhere in the house. The oven enclosure is mostly outside of the kitchen wall, and it already has a small rear door for inspection and repair, so I thought I could incorporate a vent intake in this door. The dome will have 5 inches of ceramic blanket insulation, and the air space around it, and between the fireproof inner wall of the enclosure will be 2 inches. I may have to burn extra wood during one of our typical February days as the cold intake air leeches away the heat!
I bit the bullet and bought a saw, so I shall slope the soldiers this week. Looking at others? builds, I am inspired to build a tight brick structure and use as little mortar as possible, preferably less than ? inch, with is also in keeping with local masonry fireplace codes.

[nissanneill]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Eric,
quite an ambitious project and you seem to be progression wonderfully.
I was looking at your planned fresh air supply for the oven, assuming that you are trying to reduce the already armed air from within your house kitchen, I see that you may need to place a door or restrict the flow of air from your kitchen, because I see that the fire will draw the air from wherever there is the least restriction, ie. straight through the front arch!
You might need to consider placing an air direction door/blind/whatever and draw the required air from around the dome and ultimately from behind (or even adjacent the chimney void). This might be an alternative ro have a couple of vents up alongside your existing outside kitchen wall rather than drag it around your dome and soldier bricks. Bearing in mind also that if this is the case, you will need to thoroughly insulate and seal your soldiers and dome to reduce the heat loss if -26˚F air is going to surround and pass your dome.
Just a thought.
Also, are you going to cut the tops off your soldiers by say 10-15˚ in order to slope your next dome course and in so reduce your mortar thickness?

Great job so far, keep it up!


Neill

[trockyh]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hey Eric, you've got "$%^^s" taking on a project like this. I love it.
Keep the pictures coming.

Tom

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Here's what I was thinking. Fresh air would be drawn in from the vent in the rear of the fire containment box, and would circulate around the outside of the dome, and enter the dome through points just in front of the aperture. One could elevate the inlets to the dome several inches above the floor to avoid ashes being blown around.

Also, my old house leaks like a sieve

Thanks,
Eric

[dmun]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

What I really want is one inside the house along with a cooking fireplace, but I'm freaked out about the ventilation issues and the more I research it, the more I'm convinced it's not going to work right without some kind of powered ventilation system.

A lot of this depends on the kind of house you live in. If you live in a fully sealed, hyper energy efficient modern house, you may have problems. If you live in a house like mine that leaks like a sieve, you're good to go.

This issue is discussed at some length on rumford.com, where smoking fireplaces are a big concern. It's been suggested there to put a air intake behind the refrigerator, where incoming air will be heated by the refrigerator coils, to avoid drafts and light leaks. The problem with air intakes right in the firebox of either an oven or a fireplace is that the incoming air will blow ashes around.

But, as far as powered venting is concerned, you shouldn't need it unless you have a long horizontal run on your flue, which is against code anyway. Indoor ovens have the advantage that the flue has to go through the roof, which is mostly much taller than outside ovens, and they have the temperature differential from inside to outside that promotes good draft.

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hi Eric
Thanks for the reply.
So can I ask how you arrived at that design? (and pulling it out of your a** is a completely legit response if that's the case. I'm an expert in that field

My outdoor WFO was a warm-up/practice and sort of a compromise. Like you, what I really want is one inside the house along with a cooking fireplace, but I'm freaked out about the ventilation issues and the more I research it, the more I'm convinced it's not going to work right without some kind of powered ventilation system.

I'm really excited to see yours come together! We're already suffering from weather/daylight restriction of WFO use despite how mild it's been...

Yes, Maam, this thing is pulled strait out of my posterior. I have a wood-burning stove in both my shop and house, and knew I would need a fresh air vent. Outside of that, one day I started digging a hole next to the house, and busted the wall out with a 13 lb sledgehammer, and poured a giant concrete monolith. At that point I was committed. I knew the general concept of what I wanted, and have solved the little engineering problems as they arose (probably a more expensive way to go in the end).

BTW, I've seen dozens of like indoor pizza ovens in Europe and even some here, which have no powered ventilation systems. As far as I could determine, no one was asphyxiating from carbon monoxide.

I look forward to cutting some brick tonight. When I get the soldiers in, I'll probably need your advice for the trapezoid angles.

Cheers,
E

[splatgirl]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

Hi Eric
Thanks for the reply.
So can I ask how you arrived at that design? (and pulling it out of your a** is a completely legit response if that's the case. I'm an expert in that field

My outdoor WFO was a warm-up/practice and sort of a compromise. Like you, what I really want is one inside the house along with a cooking fireplace, but I'm freaked out about the ventilation issues and the more I research it, the more I'm convinced it's not going to work right without some kind of powered ventilation system.

I'm really excited to see yours come together! We're already suffering from weather/daylight restriction of WFO use despite how mild it's been...

[Eric Pfeifer]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

What are you doing for make-up air? .

Hello splatgirl!, and a fellow Minnesotan, I see.

The back of the thermal containment box (see photo gallery under hearth) has a fresh air intake which draws air around the cupola (the one that hasn't been built yet :0) on both sides, and the air enters the mouth of the cupola on both sides of the opening arch. Is that what you mean?

Best,
E

[splatgirl]

Re: SE Minnesota insanity

What are you doing for make-up air? .