can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

[merlyn]

I will be ready to build my chimney archs this week . I`m going to use fired paver bricks [solid red bricks ]for the chimney arches . I plan to use regular morter for the lower parts of the arches and heat stop 50 for the top part where the chimney goes .. I was going to morter the 2 arches togather , but thought I should ask maybe a small seperation would be better then filled across the top with the cermic fiber and stuccoed or even some fiber stuffed in between them .. I have used full sized bricks for my dome arch as I wanted a long entrance way i plan to put an interior door in with a rubber seal when not in use .2 doors better then one .. Rains a lot down here ..
Laugh when you can life is to short to be anything but happy ..

[Les]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Mine is mortared together - no problems...

[merlyn]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

alrightttty then will do,,,, Have some heat sink 50 left .. I like the idea of a good seal there .. Lots of rain down here .. thanks

[Les]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Don't worry about the thermal loss - just build a good door and you are golden...

[NCMan]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Sorry, but I disagree w/Les. You do get significant heat loss by connecting the arches and the hearth bricks w/out a thermal break. Enough to make a huge difference? Probably not. Think about it. You do all the other work designed to retain heat, then have both your floor and arches sucking the heat right out. You build a door to retain the heat, then have it sucked right out under and around the door. It's a simple thing to do and in fact does make a difference. Personally, knowing what I do now about it, I would never build another oven w/out thermal breaks. But, to each his/her own, I say.

[SevenAcre]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Hello merlyn,

Congrats on finishing the dome and moving on to the outside arches! Here's a thread I started when I was at the same spot you are at now. Lots of feedback on the benefits of a thermal break. I was always leaning towards one, and this was enough to push me over the edge. As far as I'm concerned it took minimal extra effort (if any), and I would certainly do again. Plus, they added customization kinda looks cool. It's one more thing to talk about, heat retention aside.

Find it here: http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/t...ion-20844.html

-J

[merlyn]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

hmm lots to ponder thank you all for your help I can do the heat break I was thinking that tieing the whole thing together would would help stabilize the arches going to put a lot of weight on them......going to use 1/2 bricks for the 2 chimney arches

yes I will build massive columns on the side s .. In fact I`m things of using regular brick for the columns and then filling the void with concrete . maybe even re-bar drilled into the base ..
once again I truly do appreciate all and any comments on the build , I like to over think ,over build, do it once and get on to the next project ..

[merlyn]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

ok so thermal break how about some ceramic blanket in between the 2 arches or would you suggest some other material ????? AS for the floor I extended fire brick out 6 inches beyond the door and on the under side ceramic board out 4 inches .. I plane to tie the fire brick right to a slab of granite for the entrance way .. Thought I would go for it after reading it would be stronger without the tie ..

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Convention has one place a simple 1/4" gap between the oven arch (all the way around) and between the oven floor/entryway floor. Some builders leave a floor gap, while others span a 1" gap with stainless tubing or other material. Either way works, but remember not to fill the gap with anything that is exposed and either will break down (IFB, silicone) or be toxic (IFB, rockwool, etc).

I butted my entryway arch against the oven arch on the inside and left a 1/4" gap on the outside between the two arches. This gap, away from the heat of the oven was filled with Inswool refractory caulk. Colin (oasisdm) did it the right way, rebating his entryway arch around the oven arch.

Read through these experts' threads for some heatbreak insight:

Dennis - (deejayo)

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/atta...-wp_000034.jpg

Russell (utahbeehiver)

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f8/w...tah-17761.html

Colin (oasisdm)

http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/f51/...bee-18249.html

HTH,

John

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Meryl,

I did the same thing as GF, I actually got the idea from him. I used a ceramic fiber rope to stuff in the gap then covered it with a high temp. sealant. But this is only one way of doing things. Does it make a difference, I don't know since I don't have anything to compare too. I just used the knowledge of builders before me and I am sure some new innovation will come along as well.

[oasiscdm]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

I feel separation is essential. On my build I rebated my arch bricks around the entry arch and separated with ceramic tape around the entry arch and rope stuffed up on the face.

John thanks for the compliment but no rocket science here I copied kbartman who did it first and I liked the look of a bigger reveal. Also out strengthens the otter arches a little.

If you go to page 59 on my thread you will see what I mean. Caveat is that I wanted a larger almost whole brick reveal...

[merlyn]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Ok I did the floor gap 1/4 inch all the way down to the ceramic board and filled it with ceramic board then I put a 1 by 11/2 inch strip of stainless steel channel in in top filled with ceramic board .. Now for the arch I left a 1/4 inch gap between them ., My arches are overlapping by 1 and a half inches I thought I would use fire brick silicone I bought it at Lowes,, tube said good to 700 degrees ,, for the sealant on top and bottom of the gap and cut some ceramic board for the center filling... No ceramic fiber rope to be found around here .. If you all think this will work[[ the ceramic board and the silicone let me know either way .. Thanks for the in put ..

[SevenAcre]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

If you are looking for gasket rope try Amazon. They've got all sizes and lengths and it's cheap. In fact, they were they've been a go-to for me with my build. Found everything from chimney pipe to proofing containers there (even a 2' length of SS tubing for my break), and if you are a prime member they'll get most of it to you in two days for free. In my situation it was just flat easier than driving around looking for stuff.

Sorry for the shameless plug, but it's the honest truth.
-j

[Gulf]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

.. Now for the arch I left a 1/4 inch gap between them ., My arches are overlapping by 1 and a half inches I thought I would use fire brick silicone I bought it at Lowes,, tube said good to 700 degrees ,, for the sealant on top and bottom of the gap and cut some ceramic board for the center filling... No ceramic fiber rope to be found around here .. If you all think this will work[[ the ceramic board and the silicone let me know either way .. Thanks for the in put ..

Merlyn,

Have you picked up your cf blanket, yet? If so, the blanket material is flexible enough to lightly pack the gap. Rutland Black is available at most Ace Hardwares. It is rated for 2000 degrees. It would be fine to use for sealing the backside of the heat break.

But, I would not use for the inside ........

again.............

Also: I bought the "ceramic fiber rope gasket" from a fireplace store locally. I now believe that is actually a graphite impregnated fiberglass. "Grapho-glas", which is also made by Rutland and sold by Ace is rated for 1000 degrees. They sell it in a kit as a stove gasket replacement

[merlyn]

Re: can the dome arch be mortered to the chimney arch ?

Ok gulf thanks as I will be on the road for a week I`ll check ace hard ware stores for the parts for the parts ..and I will stuff it with the blanket .. I f I don`t find what i need I`ll do Amazon ..

But what should I use to seal the inside arch to the outside arch on the bottom of these two .?? I have a 1 inch overlap unlike yours where you placed it above the 1st arch .. It is a 1/4 inch space .. sealant or do I pack it with gasket material Looks like you used the black sealant for your whole closer..

Yes I have my blankets enough to cover it with 3 inches of ceramic fiber .and I also have mineral wool that could go over that ..

. arches and the whole front is done .. Will leave it sit now for 2 weeks as I have two art shows to go to. and it can dry out in the mean time .. I`ll try to post some pics latter . Running behind got to pack the truck .. May everyone have a pleasant day