My Pompeii Design

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. While I'm still talking about heat management, does anyone have suggestions about temperature monitoring (i.e. thermocouples, RTD's). I would love to have real-time data about my oven temperatures at specific locations in the dome. I realize that they do not have too much of a practical use once you get to "know" your pizza oven. However, I would love to have this system as a novelty. I already have an infrared gun (rated up to 1000F), but am still interested in a temperature monitoring system. I searched the forums for people who have built this type of system, but did not find too much details on their setup or even specific products they used (brands, type of displays, etc.). What are your thoughts?

Adam

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Yeah I had the idea too of having the external firebox potentially as an auxiliary heat source and/or for a second method of cooking. However, I am thinking now that the costs are too high for the benefits of the design. I'll keep posting here for relevant heat management topics (i.e. once I test my refractory materials). I have a question for you guys. Has anyone tried to sear meat on the oven floor? If so, what temperature should the floor be and what was your method?

Thanks guys,
Adam

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

I do the old throw in a bit of wood and close the door thing too.

That works for flavoring, but it's not the same as using smoke to disinfect food and dehydrate it, which is what you are doing when you make ham, bacon, smoked jerky, biltong, etc.

I was looking for some positives in this design.
Too be honest, there aren't many. Certainly not enough to justify the extra expense and complexity because, really it'd never be as good as a proper smoke box for making mettwurst, salami, etc.

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

That is a great idea Gulf. I have one of those chip boxes made for grills, but I like the look of that thing better.

[Gulf]

Re: My Pompeii Design

David,
I've been doing something similar, lately. Though, I start the chips outside the oven. Same principal as your's, with the door shut, they don't flame up.



I use an old ss water strainer basket, but there are some "readimades" marketed for BBQ folks. This repurposed contraption works great in my oven using small chips .

Edit: In the smoked up ss bowl on the right, I am doing something like you, The coals are in the bottom of the pan. Placed on top of them are the left overs from cutting up onions. A great smell and flavor boost for the smoke.

[david s]

Re: My Pompeii Design

When cooking a roast I sometimes toss half a handful of smoking chips onto some leftover coals, place the roast, close the door. With no oxygen available the chips smoke nicely rather than burn with flame.

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

If I wanted to smoke up whatever I was cooking, then it would be as simple as putting green wood on the coals. That might be a worth experiment next time I have a steak in there.

I wouldn't even relate this design to a black oven or a masonry heater at all, but closer to a hot smoker.

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

He said he was less than happy with the oven having too little smoke. A well built, properly dried, correctly fueled oven won't be smoky. It was meant to be tounge in cheek, not literal.

It's all good mate, I took it in the spirit intended.
It gave me a bit of a grin, but surely I'm not the first? Most people I meet who have never had wood oven pizza expect it to be smoky, and are surprised when it isn't really. After all this time, it still blows me away how efficient these things are.

Adam, in a standard Pompeii, you can move the fire around to influence where the heat ends up, in addition to how much fire you build. The firebox thing would result in lower max temps, too.
However, I can see a couple of advantages with your oven design.
For example you could raise the temp in your oven while the bread is still in there. If I find the temperature of my oven has dropped further than I would like when I'm baking bread, I can't do much about it.
And smoking would be a little easier, I think. Might even be able to do cold smoking.
I suggest that if you make the flue of such a size that you can match it to some sort of drop in firebrick plug, you could make this quite versatile - use the remote firebox for the slower cooking tasks, or plug the flue with a drop in brick and light the fire inside the dome for the times you want 90 second pizzas.

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Hey stonecutter,

I'm not sure what you were trying to get at in your last post. Wotavidone was just saying his oven WAS efficient. However, I don't think I mentioned too much about maximizing efficiency. If you look at my first post , one of my goals is about heat management. I mean more than just the amount of fuel vs heat absorbed by the oven. I also mean the ability to control heat flow and direction (i.e. heat management). If I missed something you meant please comment.

Thanks,
Adam

He said he was less than happy with the oven having too little smoke. A well built, properly dried, correctly fueled oven won't be smoky. It was meant to be tounge in cheek, not literal.

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Hey stonecutter,

I'm not sure what you were trying to get at in your last post. Wotavidone was just saying his oven WAS efficient. However, I don't think I mentioned too much about maximizing efficiency. If you look at my first post , one of my goals is about heat management. I mean more than just the amount of fuel vs heat absorbed by the oven. I also mean the ability to control heat flow and direction (i.e. heat management). If I missed something you meant please comment.

Thanks,
Adam

[stonecutter]

Re: My Pompeii Design

One of the things I'm less than happy about with my oven is that it has too little smoke. I'd like a little more smoke flavour in my food.
I dunno about heat management, but my ordinary "black" oven seems to be very heat effficient. Very little is wasted, and it gets very hot, hence, not enough smoke when cooking my pizzas.
I reckon there are enough challenges in building an ordinary black oven.
I'm about to embark on oven number three - I must be mad.

This is a new one....somebody that doesn't like how efficient their oven is.

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Hey guys,

I am soon going to start some testing on different components of a Pompeii oven. I first will test some refractories I found locally. I will test Whiticre Greer buff firebrick, Empire S firebrick, Clipper-DP firebrick, and KS-4 Plus castable refractory. I can not wait for my testing! I will be sure to post the results I find about different heat properties of these materials.

Adam

[wotavidone]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Hello,

I am considering building a wood fired oven this summer. I primarily want to make pizza in it but would also like to be able to make pot roasts and artisan breads. This past month I reviewed Forno Bravo's pompeii oven plans and searched numerous forums about pizza ovens. I like the concept of the spherical dome to efficiently diffuse heat and maintain even heat. While brainstorming different ideas, my dad and I came up with an idea of having an external firebox. I soon learned that this design is called a "white oven", in contrast with the standard "black oven". From my research I have realized that there is not too much information on "white oven" designs. Also, not many people have designed and constructed this type of design. My original thoughts of the benefits of a "white oven" were to:

1.) Eliminate fire ash and reduce smoke in the cooking dome
2.) Add a design challenge to the project
3.) Potentially maximize the heat management of the oven

I am in the process of making preliminary CAD sketches and assemblies to both propose design specifications and communicate my ideas. I will post these as soon as they are sufficient to be understood by other forum members. I am open to any suggestions/comments about my project and look forward to your input.

Adam

One of the things I'm less than happy about with my oven is that it has too little smoke. I'd like a little more smoke flavour in my food.
I dunno about heat management, but my ordinary "black" oven seems to be very heat effficient. Very little is wasted, and it gets very hot, hence, not enough smoke when cooking my pizzas.
I reckon there are enough challenges in building an ordinary black oven.
I'm about to embark on oven number three - I must be mad.

[Tscarborough]

Re: My Pompeii Design

Low duty are fine and indeed are better for the floor of the oven, Whitacre-Greer in particular.

What you are building is more along the design of a masonry heater than an oven, search for that for more information.

[snyderadam]

Re: My Pompeii Design

I know this is not a true "white" oven-I am referring to it as such just for simplicity in reference. This is one of my design ideas, different than a standard black oven. I am not set in stone with this design (in fact I might not use this idea at all).

I was also wondering if anyone has had personal experience with these ovens. I can admit I do not know myself how well this will work unless I would build it or know someone who has. There will be a door on the back of the firebox, if that's what you were referring to as a potential wind tunnel problem Jeeppiper. Possibly correct chimney design, door vent control, and even draft inducers could effectively heat the oven. I have the same concern with the heating of the oven floor because I would have just have convection in my design. I am not too concerned with how much wood I burn, but am primarily in concern with the proposed benefits listed in my first post.

I'm not sure if my last post came through. For the dome of oven, I found two brands of firebrick I can purchase in PA. The most common, Whitacre Greer, is a low duty firebrick (not even a low duty firebrick according to Forno Bravo's suggested alumina content). I also found an Empire S firebrick which is classified as a high duty firebrick according to ANH Refractories, but meets the suggested medium duty firebrick according to Forno Bravo's suggested alumina content. I can purchase this brick at the distributor center in Trevose, PA (near where you live jeeppiper). Does anyone have any comments on these types of firebricks or even a castable refractory (e.g. heatcast-40).

Thank you,
Adam