How should I measure oven temperature

[seannieboy71]

Many of the recipes here on Forno Bravo state the temperature at which the food should be cooked. But what temperature are they referring to? Do the mean the temperature of the hearth, dome or the air temp?

I have an IR gun andI place a simple oven thermometer inside the oven. But I am not certain which temperature I should reference when cooking.

thanks for any responses.

[SableSprings]

When I refer to a cooking temp, I am assuming 1) no fire-coals removed and 2) equalized oven. The idea of equalizing is to close up the oven after firing (for a bake...not pizza ) to have all the masonry (cooking floor & dome) temperatures come to approximately the same level. I clean out my oven & close it up for 1/2 - 1 hour after a firing and then take a IR gun reading across the cooking floor. The IR gun sold by Forno Bravo (and others) will allow you to note high, low, & average temps from a scan across the surface. I go left to right, across the middle width at a height of 3"-4" and normally the three readings will be within 5°-10°F. That's the temperature that I am using for my cooking "reference". (I'd trust the IR gun floor reading more than an oven thermometer...)

One caveat is that you don't have the fine temperature control of an indoor electric/gas oven, so you need to pay more attention to the food rather than the written temps in a recipe. I had a friend who came out to the oven while I was firing it and wanted me to cook the meringue on her lemon pie..., I moved the fire off to the side and took a temp of the floor just for reference. It was pizza temps (600°-650°F) on the floor and her meringue was done in 90 seconds...nothing close to what her recipe time noted... I was paying very close attention to how the pie looked instead of wandering off doing "just one little other thing" while it was in the oven because the book said 10-15 minutes.

Hope that helps.

[seannieboy71]

Mike,

thanks for the great response. I will try equalizing before measuring.

I was also wondering about measuring temperature when cooking meat with coals in the oven.

I read through your build thread. You have a beautiful oven and den area that is well thought out and executed. I love the hiding carts.

I also wish I had used a better hearth insulator than 4” of 5:1 perlcrete. I have R-15 rock wool insulation on the sides and R-30 over the roof. I can definitely tell that I lose heat through the base.

I have thought about characterizing the heat retention of my oven. Your plot was inspiration. I have friends coming over for pizza tomorrow evening and will track the temperatures over time.

thanks again.

Sean

[SableSprings]

Thanks Sean! It was a lot of fun putting it together and having my wife making lots of suggestions to make the area "party central" and workable for her prep. I actually am glad I only have the 4" of perlcrete under the cooking floor. No, I don't have the fabulous heat retention that others do, however when I need to drop the temp 50-100°F going from baguettes to Challah I can accomplish that with leaving the door open and misting occasionally for 1/2 hour or so. I think it always comes down to the fact that your oven is going to be unique and you need to learn how to work it.

As to your question about meat temps, you go with the floor temp where your pan goes. The pan and food will cool the area, so moving it around is helpful sometimes if you've got a big load (like a turkey). But with all that mass, the oven will bring everything up to temp just fine. This is where learning to "watch & smell" the food is going to take a little while...generally, you'll find things get done a lot quicker than you expect (because of the moist surrounding heat). Definitely invest in a good probe thermometer...I spent what I thought was a LOT for an MK4 Thermapen but I am considering a second one because it's fabulous. I visited my niece in Pierre, SD and it seemed to take forever for her off-brand probe to get a reading (bread in an electric oven). I swear the oven must have dropped half its heat load while she had the door open, probing the loaf waiting to see if it was done...not a problem with the $99 MK4.

Sorry, didn't mean to babble on...hope that something in there helped.

[seannieboy71]

Thanks again for the helpful response. I do have a thermapen, but it is the $15 model from amazon. It works great so far.

i enjoyed your babbling response. I tend to babble
myself.

I will use the floor temperature as the guide for cooking meat. I hope to cook our thanksgiving turkey in the oven this year.

I built my experimental oven mainly for cooking pizza, but I have found that I enjoy cooking in it. I search for things to make. Finding the Forno bravo website and forum has been a godsend for that.

I have always been a cookie baker and I find that cookies baked in my WFO have a better final texture. I could be imagining it, but they seem to be better to me. My kids like them either way.

In one of your posts you mentioned that Friday is your bread baking day. Enjoy yourself tomorrow!

Sean

[SableSprings]

I have a neighbor whose has brought over cookies and biscotti for baking in my WFO. We normally have to wait a while with oven open to get sorta down to "recipe" temps...and everyone that has the finished product, says the same thing...these are better than the same doughs/batters done in the electric oven (at the prescribed, lower temps). I've found that you've got to focus on how done the cookies look rather than watching only the clock. By the way, I often pile some small red & yellow potatoes into a Dutch oven with EVOO, salt, & pepper - toss & bake. Having them on hand for breakfasts, snacks, & dinners is a real plus for the week after bread bakes. (Quartered onions in the roast are also wonderful!) My favorite for the little baked potatoes is to quarter them, add a dollop each of mayo & pesto for a great variation on potato salad.

Yes, today is bake day for my neighborhood...only 18 loaves today ...Saturday deliveries.

[seannieboy71]

I hope you enjoyed baking day. Only 18 loaves sounds like a great day. At some point I hope to get into bread baking.

I’m glad to hear that I am not the only person that thinks the cookies are better made in the WFO.

We had friends over for pizza Friday night and I tried a pizza I read about in Stonecutter’s oven build thread, jalapeño popper pizza. I added some hatch valley green chili in addition to the jalapeños. I topped it off with some bacon and a bit of mozzarella. It was terrific.

I slow cooked a roast this afternoon (Sunday) with the retained heat. I baked some potatoes too. Next time I will try your Dutch oven roasted potatoes instead.

I recorded oven temperature over time. I will put the data into excel and plot it up. My IR thermometer doesn’t keep a maximum temp from a scan so I might not have always captured the peak temperatures. I will upload the plot after I get it done.

[seannieboy71]

Here is the temperature plot for my oven. Included temperatures that I pulled from your oven temperature plot and from a post I found from Les. From the comments in Les’ post, I assume that the temperatures that he reported are for a Pompeo oven per the FB plans.

I didn’t track my heat up temperature so I just plotted versus time from the peak temperature. I made a second plot focusing on the first 12 hours. I also shifted all of the curves so that they line up better. It shows how much heat that cooking twenty five loaves of bread took out of your oven.

[SableSprings]

Nice temp plots Sean. The difference you are experiencing is the improved insulation (both above & below) over my oven. Nice to see some generic comparison values. I am really glad to see how consistent your ceiling/floor temps are...well done on your build! I suspect you'll even actually see some improvements in the temp holding times for a while yet. Now you get to start exploring a new world of cooking with your "new toy"

[seannieboy71]

Mike,

thanks. “New Toy” is definitely the right description. It is comforting to see that my heat retention compares well to other ovens. I was worried that my choice to use red clay bricks for the oven would result in worse performance.

I have never been one to enjoy grilling, but I enjoy cooking pizzas so much that we have had family or friends over for pizza every Friday night for the last 3 months except when we have been out of town. Has definitely helped maintain some level of socialization during this COVID pandemic.

Now I just need to find more things to cook.