Mobile Pizza trailer code nightmares.....

[ThriceGreatest333]

I am a first time business owner and was determined that if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this right. I believe I've spent about 75 hours researching the various codes and licensing I do or do not need to get. It's easy to find info on traditional food trucks, e.g., fully enclosed, self-sufficient models. The problem is figuring out how these codes pertain to an open-air style Mobile Food Dispensing Vehicle(pizza oven trailer). There is literally no codes specific to open-air pizza trailers. Fully enclose trailers, yes. But the next step down from a self sufficient unit with 3-compartment sink and the works as far as code goes, is an open-air hot dog cart; but they are restricted to only serving frankfurters. That is the only reference I can find to open-air food vehicles at all! And please don't say "Just give the health department a call"....I have visited that place in person 4 times in the past 2 weeks and those people are clueless. The Fire Marshal is clueless on how to permit a vehicle that transports flames/coals(since my catering operation has to serve lunch at 3 different locations in a 2.5hour span, which means I can't put out the fire 3 different times. I have to find a way to transport the oven while the flame is burning strong all the way, he has no idea what to tell me) even though spark arrestors will be used according to NFPA 96 to be in accordance with existing code, but the moving part jars him a little. I can't even figure out how to legally label these open air style pizza trailers. For Example:


Ex. 1) Definition of a Mobile Food Dispensing Vehicle... "MFDVs include vehicle-mounted public food service establishments that are self-propelled or otherwise moveable from place to place. These units must be separately licensed and meet the minimum specifications as required in Section 61C-4.0161, Florida Administrative Code. MFDVs can travel from place to place and sell or serve food to anyone, unlike vehicles used only to transport catered food to a contracted service location. For more information, see our Guide to MFDVs and Hot Dog Carts."" The part in green scares me. If a pizza trailer qualifies under the definition of a caterer, which is what they are sold for mainly... "The Division of Hotels and Restaurants classifies catering as a public food service establishment where food or drink is prepared for service elsewhere." Then why aren't vehicles used to transport that food, aka the pizza trailer by definition as a caterer, be considered MFDV's(based on the green font)?? If I serve food to the public, I'm a MFDV; but if I cater for contracted private events only my vehicle is no longer a MFDV, but instead a vehicle used to transport catered goods? So do I need both licenses or not? Because my small town doesn't allow MFDV's, but they do allow catering. So if I can label myself as a caterer only, it may be a legal loophole to operate within city boundaries. I'm pulling my hair out here!

Ex: Catering - "The Division of Hotels and Restaurants classifies catering as a public food service establishment where food or drink is prepared for service elsewhere." ........Does a pizza oven catering service qualify as "prepared and served elsewhere", because the dough is prepared at a commissary, but the pizza isn't staged/cooked until you arrive at location where it's cooked on the spot? But it also says ""Catering does not include those establishments licensed by the Dept of Agricultural and Consumer Services or the Dept. of Health, or any location where food is provided or displayed for sale by the individual meal""......isn't serving someone a pizza for each person considered "sale by the individual meal" which would mean you don't qualify as a caterer. Grrrrrrrr!

And last but not least, the fire marshal through in this little gem...."I don't know if you'd be allowed to use a oven you build yourself for commercial use. You might have to use UL certified equipment. From what I've seen in research. This may be true! Never in any of the certified manufacturers of mobile ovens (Firewithin.com, Mugnaini, here) have I seen anyone mention anything about UL certification when they build their own custom wood fired ovens. I know it was really long and naggy, but I really tried to do my research first before asking for help. Any information about any of this buy people who have open-air mobile wood fired catering business would be greatly appreciated. Or anyone that may have some insight into these issues at all. Thanks a lot guys.

[JAG]

Hi Thrice


I think his open air thing is pretty new to a lot of places, I think the officials have to make up laws on the fly for us open airs and unfortunately nobody does their due diligence and us operators get screwed because no one researchs how we function. In Ohio we have various levels of vendor licenses, our license allows us to operate anywhere in the state, but of course we have to abide by the local county and city rules that we visit, which of course are all different. We do a farmers market in the county we live in and things are pretty casual, the typical health checks and fire extinguisher checks, the neighboring county and city literally 2miles from our market the health codes are interpreted differently and the fire codes require us to set up our tent 20 feet from our trailer. Now the law reads 20 feet from an open fire, our arguement is the oven is not an open fire, but we know who wins that arguement. We just don't do business in that area. Now in the city of Columbus at the metro parks we have been asked to cater parties. Here we can not serve customers their food when doing buffet style. We can assist the clients, hand them plates, hand them the pizza spatulas, hold the pizza trays but we can not physically place the slices on the plates. It is crazy and aggravating. All of this variation is crazy, there are even times when we get inspected in the same area by the same bureau but different inspectors and they interpret the codes differently, again it is super aggravating and we are unfortunately at the receiving end of their lack of knowledge about our business.

JG.

[kkgator]

Thrice, I'm in Gainesville & you'll never get Hotels & Restaurants to give you a mobile food permit. There are several of us "tow behind" pizza trailers and we are all classified as caterers. It's much easier to go after a catering license than a mobile food truck permit. There are several instances where you are legally allowed to sell to the public one to one:

Temporary Events (arts festivals, etc including farmers markets). Farmers markets are handled by the AgDept & as long as you have a catering license, proper sanitation, disposables, gloves, & a hand washing station you are good to go. I use a water dispensing cambro listed as "handwashing only" and have I another paper towel holder soap dispenser cambro. I add hot water at 630AM & it stays relatively hot until noon.

Specifically contracted/catered events.

Here is where the catering law becomes grey:
Technically you are not allowed under a catering license to set up & sell to the public one to one. For instance, a brewery for example. Let's say that you'd like to show up at a craft brewery & sell pies. Well, this violates the one-to-one selling to the public rule without a mobile self enclosed unit. I know a few open trailer pizza guys that do this. What would happen if a health inspector found them selling to the public 1 to 1? Since I have friends that are inspectors all they can do is make you close up shop because you don't have the correct license. There isn't even a fine involved. Would you like to explain to the brewery or customers why the health inspector is shutting you down? Not me, so I choose to operate under the law.

Fire Marshal: why bother talking to them? Basically it's a big fireplace. I recommend an extinguisher but basically it's better to fain ignorance and ask for forgiveness. I've been operating for over 3 years & have never had the fire marshal bother me about the oven. Make sure that you have a fire rated tent & extinguisher & you are good to go. Common sense always prevails when dealing with fire.

Traveling with coals on the move: I used to take all of the hot coals out of my oven, put in a metal ash can & then travel. There isn't enough of a draft or air flow to ride down the road with active coals or fire going. Usually when I leave the market I spread the coals pout & then throw the door on the oven when I get home. We are talking about a 5 mile trek here. When I travel greater then 15-20 miles I throw the door on the oven for travel.

I bought a Forno Bravo kit & assembled it myself. This is no different than someone making there own BBQ rig for catering events. The FB ovens have all of the legal UL, Food Code, NSF ratings making them able to be used in commercial applications.

Let me know if you have any other issues & I'd be glad to answer on the board or PM me. This board is all about being a community.

Kenny/Streganonasoven.com

[ThriceGreatest333]

Thanks for the reply guys, your knowledge is well received. I was thinking putting a small open/closeable latch on the front of the oven door so that I can regulate how much air is getting into the oven by how much I open or close the vent. This also ensures the air entering the oven while moving, will still come in from the front of the oven and exhaust through the flue, following the normal pattern of air flow it does in normal operation........maybe lol. KKGator, I like your water setup and will look into that further. As far as the UL certification. I was aware that Forno Bravo sold UL certified kits. But in order to save money I wanted to possibly design/build the oven myself using certified refractory materials and using the specs from commercial designs, to basically mimic their them with a few changes of my own. This is what I am unsure about. But seeing as how a lot of people on this forum order their own parts and build custom ovens that aren't manufactured kits that it would be okay to do. But maybe the issue is with being a commercial appliance selling food vs a residential one, but your right if BBQ's can do it, so should we. Infact you can operate a smoker off of a vehicle with no covering/roofing or any kind. The catch is that you can't handle the food or serve it unless you're inside the vehicle. Much like JAG mentioned. Hmmm. I will continue to contact my local departments and maybe by some manipulation of wording, or a holy miracle. I can convince them to permit me as a MFDV as well as a caterer. If anyone has any questions for me, please feel free to ask as well. I know I'm a newb, but I am hitting the research pretty hard and inevitably will retain at least some of the information I read along the way, lol. Thanks again guys

[ThriceGreatest333]

JAG.....This is from the international fire code which has some form of jurisdiction in Ohio. Its states the following pertaining to the inspector giving you grief about the "open flame" forcing you to move your tent. Chapter 3,Section 302 states the following definition -- OPEN BURNING -- ""The burning of materials wherein products of combustion are emitted directly into the ambient air without passing through a stack or chimney from an enclosed chamber. Open burning does not include road flares, smudgepots and similar devices associated with safety or occupational uses typically considered open flames, recreational fires or use of portable outdoor fireplaces. For the purpose of this definition, a chamber shall be regarded as enclosed when, during the time combustion occurs, only apertures, ducts, stacks, flues or chimneys necessary to provide combustion air and permit the escape of exhaust gas are open"" I think this should apply to that situation and maybe you can use it next time.....idk

[JAG]

Thrice,

Thank you for the info, I just kind of gave up on that area as I didn't want to be hassled. I may have to reconsider working in that area and get a copy of this code. I Think it would be fun to recite this code to one of their inspectors, maybe even receive a little respect for knowing the code. During their inspections they tend to talk to us like we are idiots and our oven will cause Rome to burn if you know what I mean. Thanks again for the leg work, good luck.

JG

[ThriceGreatest333]

I figured while on the subject of health code, etc....I came across this interesting form in my research. This is a Florida document mind you; but something similar may be available in your area as well. While operating a food truck/or in my case a wood fired pizza trailer, one of the hurdles you must overcome is the need to keep ingredients like cheese at or below 41F degrees & hot potentially hazardous foods at around 140F degrees(a typical time/temperature model). This form potentially allows you to only use Time only as a factor in keeping ingredients in safe, sanitary conditions. What I mean is. Instead of having to keep your ingredients at 41F at all times. This form allows you, as long as your ingredients started at 41 degrees, to keep them out of the fridge for up to 4 hours, or 6 hours as long as the ingredients never rise above 70F. The only thing, is after the 4 or 6 hour window is up. You cannot return the items back to the refrigerator. They must be discarded. Again I'm not a lawyer or expert, but this potentially allows you to load up your chilled ingredients from your commissary refrigerator in the morning, and from there you have a 4-6 hour window to use those ingredients before they must be discarded. So don't over stock and take the risk of wasting precious ingredients. That being said. For the person whom is having a struggle with refrigeration issues, this may provide you a little extra flexibility at the least.

[kkgator]

You can use time as temperature control & mostly this mode of temp control is used in catering aspects not in restaurants mostly due to lack of refrigeration.

The only products that I keep cold are my cheeses & meats. Veggies & sauce need no temperature controls & I never recycle leftover product unless I use it at home.

In the summer I use 1-2 large coolers w/ice along with a Cambridge w/ice for items that need to be kept cold.

[ThriceGreatest333]

Right, . Also I have a basic "kids" sauce made from diluted tomato paste & herbs that is cooked beforehand. Do you know if that would need to be temp controlled?. That being said Gator, while trying to classify my specific food operation. I came across the idea of a cottage kitchen. Cottage kitchens can make jams, jellies, homemade bread from home, something which is prohibited for catering/MFDV's; but since they are able to make bread and sell it from home. Do you suppose it would be possible to make/store ONLY your dough at home, to limit space/equipment needed in my shared commissary kitchen, & cut down monthy cost? Much like a legal cottage kitchen would. Btw, love the cooler idea. I didn't think the inspectors would allow that for some reason. Thanks for the reply. You guys rock!

[JAG]

The cottage kitchen concept definitely would not fly where we are. The health dept. is very clear that we need to prep our dough at our comm. we also need to do any meat prep at the comm. if it is not pre-cooked. Our health dept. also requires us to have documentation that we were at our comm. doing said work, I don't know if they have ever checked on us through the paper trail but I don't want to take a chance so I hit the comm. every week and prep a weeks worth.

We transport all of our food in coolers and we use ice blankets to keep things cool, they work excellent and we don't have to worry about ice melt ruining any food. Our event inspectors will check out our coolers during/after we are set up to make sure we transported our cool foods properly. I have even heard tales of people being sent home because they didn't transport properly. They may have been repeat offenders because all of the inspectors we have ever encountered have always said "hey, next time you have to do it this way, I'll let it slide this time".

One little thing I learned from one of our inspectors, it seems like we always had this guy do our events, is that our inspectors even though they may be off duty or off work that particular day, if they should pass an event with food they are obligated to stop and do inspections.

http://www.coleman.com/product/chill...s#.VqdyF_JwWUk

[kkgator]

In order to obtain a catering license or mobile food permit you will need to make & store all catering items at your comm kitchen. Cottage Food Law in Florida stipulates that you may only make less than 15K per year in order to sell items under the cottage food law. Also there are labeling requirements & a list of products that can be served under the cottage food law.

Keep in mind, there is NO need to cook pizza sauce as it "cooks" in the oven & you are not allowed to use your home kitchen as you comm kitchen. You can operate as a personal chef/private chef without a license in the State of Florida.

There is a list of items that do not require refrigeration ie (vegetables, tomato's, canned goods) pickled items/vinegar based items (olives, peppers)

If in doubt, ice it down.

I use Cambro top loading coolers for my food station:
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/sear...p-loading.html

[ThriceGreatest333]

Yeah your probably right, I was just looking for another loophole, since finding a commissary kitchen to share space with in my small town is proving more difficult than originally anticipated. My best luck has been with a few churches in the area that told me to put something in writing and they'll get back to me. As far as the veggies, once they are cut they need to be refrigerated if I am not mistaken because of they're high moisture content, but uncut is fine.

Can I ask you something else Kenny? In the definition of a caterer where it says "Caterers are classified as any public food service establishments where food or drink is prepared for service elsewhere in response to an agreed upon contract for a function or event" ....do your clients HAVE TO sign a physical contract? Thanks again

[JAG]

Thrice


If you have a local senior center check with them. I got pretty lucky, in our small community our senior center kitchen is grossly underused, I can get in about anytime I need and there is never anybody doing work in the kitchen.

JG

[kkgator]

You don't need a contract. Usually I send an email to a client outlining what we will & will not provide. Basically an estimate. If I were going to cater a much larger event like a wedding reception were it could be 100 ppl or more I will have a written signed contract. The language of "caterer" is to denote that any established restaurant can cater & basically does not have to have a catering license if they are an already established restaurant because they have a food permit for their restaurant.

Like JAG said try local churches, AmVets, VFW, or clubs & organizations that have an inspected kitchen.

[sarah]

Hi you guys...jumping on this thread because it seems close to what I'm trying to figure out. I live in California. Today I finally talked to someone at the health department about a mobile wood-fired oven. The lady there revealed to me the most obscure section of CalCode (the California Retail Food Code), basically singling out wood-fired food as only being allowed at community events or restaurants:

113843. "Open-air barbecue" means a piece of equipment designed for barbecuing food, where the food is prepared out of doors by cooking directly over hot coals, heated lava, hot stones, gas flame, or other method approved by the department, on equipment suitably designed and maintained for use out of doors, that is operated by a temporary food facility, or a mobile food facility that remains fixed during hours of operations at a community event or a permanent food facility.

This is just too bizarre to me...why? And how are there so many wood-fired oven trailers in this state then?

I guess I'm going to look into a catering license which never crossed my mind, but maybe that's how everyone is getting around this.