Oven number two..

[OzOvenBuilder]

Re: Oven number two..

Tapping any brick into place is bad practice and shouldnt be needed if you make your mortar right.

It takes practice but the brick should be gently coaxed into place, zen like, once you get the hang of it you can increase the speed of laying.

Most of the people I've come across here are not qualified and/or experienced tradesmen (Bricklaying), and any advice/comments I make would be with this in mind.

I'm sure alot of oven builders here have experienced the moisture from their mortar/clay/adhesive being sucked up before their eyes, then having to reapply over again. The few taps I do give ensure my firebricks are laid where I want them and straight too!

Could you please let the readers know why it's bad practice to tap a brick?

[brickie in oz]

Re: Oven number two..

Most of the people I've come across here are not qualified and/or experienced tradesmen (Bricklaying), and any advice/comments I make would be with this in mind.

I never underestimate the prowess and knowledge of an amateur and I always pass on the same teachings to a pro or amateur alike.
Ive seen some awful brickwork over the years done by so called professionals and some absolutely gorgeous work done by the weekend warrior.
So I never patronise one particular group.

I'm sure alot of oven builders here have experienced the moisture from their mortar/clay/adhesive being sucked up before their eyes, then having to reapply over again. The few taps I do give ensure my firebricks are laid where I want them and straight too!

If you need to tap the brick you need to adjust the mortar to suit the conditions of the brick and the weather, a gentle squash and rub into place with the brick should suffice to align and get the brick laid.

Could you please let the readers know why it's bad practice to tap a brick?

Back in 1971 in my first week of my apprenticeship the head of bricklaying said that "only blacksmiths need to tap, adjust the mortar to suit", Ive carried that with me since.
There are lots of vids on youtube with lots of tappers.
In production work you should spread enough mortar to enable a perpend of mortar to be quizzed out, called the snots, the snots should then become the next perpend.
If you tap you have to throw the mortar back onto the mortar board in order to tap, you then have to bend down and scoop up more mortar to apply the next perpend, lay 1000 bricks and thats an extra 1000 movements you had to do that werent required.

I have a bricklayer mate and we help each other out on occasions, he used to be a tapper, it was the way he was taught, every time he tapped I used to say "$1" because thats what it was costing him, with every tap I was laying an extra brick to him.
He now doesnt tap.

One of my vids.
Laying to a line - YouTube

[Johnny the oven man]

Re: Oven number two..

Good post Brickie, I got told "tapping" was for dancers.

[david s]

Re: Oven number two..

So it's really only a time thing and does not effect the quality or strength of the joint. I probably tap every third brick to get an exact level. (I am not a fast bricklayer)

[brickie in oz]

Re: Oven number two..

So it's really only a time thing and does not effect the quality or strength of the joint. I probably tap every third brick to get an exact level. (I am not a fast bricklayer)

Most oven builders on this forum are looking to up skill their knowledge base and to learn from those that have the skills to pass one, thats why we are all here, me included.
So while here why not up skill your bricklaying knowledge too?

[david s]

Re: Oven number two..

I totally agree with you Al, but what I meant is that for an amateur where time is not really a crucial factor, it wouldn't hurt to tap your bricks to help position them, but it is interesting to learn what the professionals do.

[OzOvenBuilder]

Re: Oven number two..

I never underestimate the prowess and knowledge of an amateur and I always pass on the same teachings to a pro or amateur alike.
Ive seen some awful brickwork over the years done by so called professionals and some absolutely gorgeous work done by the weekend warrior.
So I never patronise one particular group.

...Nor do I patronise thank you. As a qualified Trainer & Assessor one of the pre-requisites is to figure out how the student best learns, visually, verbally, physically and/or academically. While only giving advice on here I try to make it as generic as possible.



If you need to tap the brick you need to adjust the mortar to suit the conditions of the brick and the weather, a gentle squash and rub into place with the brick should suffice to align and get the brick laid.



Back in 1971 in my first week of my apprenticeship the head of bricklaying said that "only blacksmiths need to tap, adjust the mortar to suit", Ive carried that with me since.
There are lots of vids on youtube with lots of tappers.
In production work you should spread enough mortar to enable a perpend of mortar to be quizzed out, called the snots, the snots should then become the next perpend.
If you tap you have to throw the mortar back onto the mortar board in order to tap, you then have to bend down and scoop up more mortar to apply the next perpend, lay 1000 bricks and thats an extra 1000 movements you had to do that werent required.

I have a bricklayer mate and we help each other out on occasions, he used to be a tapper, it was the way he was taught, every time he tapped I used to say "$1" because thats what it was costing him, with every tap I was laying an extra brick to him.
He now doesnt tap.

One of my vids.
Laying to a line - YouTube

Oh dear, I think I've been doing it wrong all these years!

[brickie in oz]

Re: Oven number two..

Oh dear, I think I've been doing it wrong all these years!

No, you are absolutely right I shall start tapping from tomorrow onwards, never too old to learn I say, thanks for the tip.

[david s]

Re: Oven number two..

Seems there are tappers and non tappers. Maybe my tapping every third brick is a good compromise.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Oven number two..

I'm sure alot of oven builders here have experienced the moisture from their mortar/clay/adhesive being sucked up before their eyes, then having to reapply over again. The few taps I do give ensure my firebricks are laid where I want them and straight too!

Thank you for the insight, OzOvenBuilder.

As unqualified and inexperienced as I am (this is my first oven) this statement applies to me. Over the course of my build I learned to adjust my mortar so each brick could be manually pressed into place in one motion. I found that if I later readjusted the position of a brick after initially setting it the viscous bond between brick and mortar was broken and the resulting bond was not as strong as the original. Any tapping to adjust a brick had to be done within 2-3 seconds with the adjustment less than 1/16" either direction.

Admittedly I became really fussy in adhering to this process and have wondered how much weaker a joint becomes if any tapping at all upsets the integrity and consistency of the original bond.
John

[brickie in oz]

Re: Oven number two..

and have wondered how much weaker a joint becomes if any tapping at all upsets the integrity and consistency of the original bond.
John

A bond is only weakened if you reposition a brick after it has been laid and the moisture has been sucked out of the mortar, if thats the case the mortar should be scrapped off and the brick relayed.

[WJW]

Re: Oven number two..

The oven looks great Al! Did the carbon ever get burned off those rear corners?

[brickie in oz]

Re: Oven number two..

The oven looks great Al! Did the carbon ever get burned off those rear corners?

Absolutely, every time it gets fired it now clears.

[British Standard's Stucco]

Re: Oven number two..

to the above comments, the only time i tap is when my belly is full of pizza, afew malt beers and a good tune on the radio.
the best part is true tradesmen sharing secrets,

[Bacterium]

Re: Oven number two..

Tap..tap....raising old thread

Cool build Al

Must say I got my mortar spot on this weekend while doing the brick base. I stopped tapping just by chance, my young son (shadow) was right up close and was helping put mortar down for next brick. So rather than just swinging around as he was right there, I just started wriggling the bricks down. Not tapping does makes sense

I've been watching bricky doing new build next door, all those little things do help - less handling less mess etc.