Building my Oven with a mix of plans

[brickie in oz]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

Ive never built a round oven so dont know, there are many on the forum who have.
I dont know if they used support bands or not?

[Bmwdiver]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

I thought that if I encased the wire in the insulating layer of perlite and Portland cement that it would expand and not fully support but the structure would reinstated when the oven goes cold. After reviewing several failures with a tall soldier course the failures are after a hot cycle when the oven goes cold and shrinks.

Thanks for the input I'll look more closely at the possible effects, before I encase it with the light concrete.


I guess I just figured it would act the same as the re-bar that adds strength to a slab.

[david s]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

The steel wire will go slack at the first sign of heat and serve no purpose at all once slack.

The expansion off steel wire should be the same as the refractory, it is with concrete anyhow. Because the wire is on the outside it is likely to be in tension as the refractory expands and the wire is cooler. Once the wire heats it should go slack and probably stretch and therefore not return to it's original length leaving it useful for the first heating cycle only. This is what happens with kilns that are held together with threaded rod and angle iron. They need to be tensioned up from time to time, but you won't have this option and your wire is far more stretchy than 10mm rod.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

This build looks very risky.

I agree, but I would bet that if you complete your oven using your proposed design your oven will work okay. But for how long? Based on (FB) conventional wisdom, the inherent structural flaws have already been mentioned (hearth strength, soldier stability, sufficient dome wall thickness). Another questionable element in your design is the brick floor that extends past the perimeter of your oven. These bricks will take all the heat you can give them during firing and afterward, reducing the efficiency of your oven.

If your heart is in building an oven like Salvo's, go forth and enjoy the build from your own hands. FWIW, I have yet to see a custom hand-crafted brick oven (like the ones built here) from any of the Italian oven sites I have visited. Rather, they all (including Stefano Ferrara's) appear like they were designed and built to be completed as cheaply and quickly as possible.

[Bmwdiver]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

The expansion off steel wire should be the same as the refractory, it is with concrete anyhow. Because the wire is on the outside it is likely to be in tension as the refractory expands and the wire is cooler. Once the wire heats it should go slack and probably stretch and therefore not return to it's original length leaving it useful for the first heating cycle only. This is what happens with kilns that are held together with threaded rod and angle iron. They need to be tensioned up from time to time, but you won't have this option and your wire is far more stretchy than 10mm rod.

I guess I was not clear enough. It will not be in tension nor will it be on the outside I plan on it being in the concrete as a structural additive when I add the perlite layer.

But after more research and the gracious input in this forum I'm making a few adjustments.

Thanks Gianni, your right I have a picture in my head of what I want I just need to figure out how to combine the ascetics I want with the integrity of the tried and true methods. After all salvo did make a living building AND repairing them. Repair being the key word.

I'll keep you all posted.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

I plan on it being in the concrete as a structural additive when I add the perlite layer.

Bmwdiver brings up a good point. If full-length soldiers are installed, would a 6" outside layer of vermicrete sandwiched between dome and a concrete wall, say, be an effective buttress? After all, the compressive strength is there, only this time sideways.

Bmwdiver, do you remember the range of repairs Salvo did?

[brianventura]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

Wow! You certainly created an interesting post. As for "stepping on my post" I don't mind at all. Your build has started a captivating thread with quite a few comments. I hope all the questions and comments are useful and you end up with a great oven.

Good luck and I will check back for additional posts.

Respectfully submitted,
Brian (brianventura)

[lwood]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

"Another questionable element in your design is the brick floor that extends past the perimeter of your oven." Good point GianniFocaccia

[Bmwdiver]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

That's one I plan on correcting after I decide on soldier or sailor first course. The floor will be marked and the excess will be cut off.

Thanks for pointing it out.

[Bmwdiver]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

Bmwdiver, do you remember the range of repairs Salvo did?

From what I remember it was mainly hearth repair/replace and dome brick replacements.


Brian

[Neil2]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

"If full-length soldiers are installed, would a 6" outside layer of vermicrete sandwiched between dome and a concrete wall, say, be an effective buttress? "

Not too many domes collapse outwards (I don't recall any on this site). Vermicrete with a concrete wall would be more than adequate. The wall would only need to be a couple of inches high.

[Bmwdiver]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

Ok well it?s been a while and I have been bad about posting progress pictures. But all is going very well, although I am now running into a minor problem.

I?m trying to stucco the outer finish layer and can?t seem to get the stucco screen to lay against the oven in any uniform way. If there are there any techniques out there that someone would like to share to make this easier, they would be greatly appreciated.

Current progress pics?

[shuboyje]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

I don't have help with the lath, didn't use it on my first oven and am just starting with it on my second oven right now. My question is about your dome. Did you build a full hemispherical dome on top of your soldier course? I just ask because your door looks extremely tall, which leads me to believe your dome is also.

[david s]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

Bmwdiver,
Don't know what kind of mesh you are using, but I used to use fine chicken wire and found the best way was to cut it into small pieces overlapping one another. you can either wire the whole lot in or place the pieces as you go. The smaller pieces cope with the problem of working over a compound curve. I no longer use mesh, but use fibres instead now- much easier.

[Bmwdiver]

Re: Building my Oven with a mix of plans

I don't have help with the lath, didn't use it on my first oven and am just starting with it on my second oven right now. My question is about your dome. Did you build a full hemispherical dome on top of your soldier course? I just ask because your door looks extremely tall, which leads me to believe your dome is also.

Shuboyje: Yes I did a full hemi over the Soldier course (actually Sailor in my case) the door opening is actually an optical illusion I have not yet added the outer landing bricks (antique bricks) so it appears larger than it actually is.

the inner opening is 13" the outer opening will be 17" this is because I am building a vintage looking door out of Epay. the inner dome height is 24". Not by design or anything just where it turned out as i built up Since this is my first oven I'm not sure if that is considered tall or not.


Brian