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Strength vs Simplicity

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    I have no plan to shape the bottoms to eliminate the horizontal vees. That is where the CNC waterjet would come in...

    The local harbison distributor has not responded with prices and a catalog yet, so I will call them again Monday. I am anxious to see what tapers the brick come in.

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  • Sharkey
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Originally posted by dmun View Post
    We've learned that the best commercial oven builders in Italy only trim the inner edges of the bricks so that they appear to fit on the visible side, and fill the outer gaps afterword.
    I was considering cutting perfectly shaped bricks for minimal joints but after seeing the work of some traditional Italian builders decided it would make negligible difference in the end. If you want a good finish on the inside with minimal joints you only need to taper the bricks vertically.

    Actually, I found it harder to get the mortar into the joint if I also tapered the bricks from front to back.

    And you will still end up with some flat V-shaped mortar joints on the tighter chains because the circle is not actually a circle but a series of straight lines.

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    I think I will buy the $99 14" chop saw and retrofit it with a few water sprays and a diamond blade. That way I can set the 10" HF saw up for the angle cuts and the 14" for the bevel cuts.

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  • Millstone Man
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    As to the brick cutting: I got a used 14'' saw off of craigslist and have not replaced the blade yet after a lot of cutting (oven and kitchen project). As stated here before, the key is to have a good water pump and not force the bricks and your blade should last a very long time.

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  • Les
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Originally posted by dmun View Post
    For the cost of water jetting 20 different styles of bricks in two planes you could buy multiple modular ovens.
    I totally agree with you David. I'm just saying that if you had access to one, it would be a fun project to build an oven that way.

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    I have contacted Harbison and requested sizing and pricing information for their medium duty fire bricks. The other local supplier lists their bricks as 8.75 x 4.25 x 2.5 so not ideal, but $1.30 each.

    Harbison also carries many blanket and board products so I will get pricing and data sheets to see what is suitable.

    I am very excited to get the planning finished and start the foundation (will create a build thread in the proper forum when the work starts).

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  • fxpose
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    I used the large saw to make rough tapered and/or compound cuts and then used an angle grinder on each brick as I went along laying them. Not precise, but it minimized joint gaps on the inside surface. I left the gaps large on the dome exterior and filled them with home brew mortar.

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  • dmun
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    I think the ticket would be a water jet.
    For the cost of water jetting 20 different styles of bricks in two planes you could buy multiple modular ovens.
    Really, look into tapered firebricks. They're worth the cost if you're going to cut that third plane for perfect fit.

    Harbison Walker has a branch near you. Call them before you commit yourself to months of work. Everyone's time is worth something.

    Buncher Industrial District Michael Stillwagon
    Ave. B Bldg #14-A
    Leetsdale, PA 15056-1390

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  • Les
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Yes, I used 4 inches of board under the hearth. You mentioned a CNC machine. I think the ticket would be a water jet.

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    I had thought that a total dry fit would work as well, but the angles just get so complex. I have laid out the entire dome in autocad and can see that one would need a CNC machine to cut anything after about the 4th chain. Even the bottoms of the 1st-3rd chains would need a bit of easing to flit perfectly flat.

    I am going to go ahead and attempt to work with dry fit sides and attempt to taper the tops and bottoms for a cleaner fit with mortar.

    Is that 4" of FB board you used on th hearth?

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  • Les
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Originally posted by BeanAnimal View Post
    Do you see an issue with dry fitted vertical joints?
    I didn?t see an issue with it. I thought of it as an advantage. With all the expanding and contracting going on, I felt it would minimize cracking. I have no clue what is happening at the back since it?s covered.
    Originally posted by BeanAnimal View Post
    Are you the only builder who has used no mortar in the vertical joints and instead dry fit them?
    I am not aware of any - I know a few have come extreamly close. I think if someone had the right saw and time you could dry fit the entire oven other than the entry.

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    dmun,

    Thank you for adding the very important safety precaution that I overlooked when mentioning using the dry saw. Silicosis is not a pleasant ailment and certainly dry cutting brick, concrete and/or pavers is certain to release very fine dust laden with silica! I spent many years working in the mining industry, some of it in rock mines. I spent a great deal of time drilling in limestome mines (roof bolting) and it was not uncommon to see guys drilling without water and without respiratory protection!

    Do you see an issue with dry fitted vertical joints?
    Last edited by BeanAnimal; 03-24-2011, 04:56 AM.

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  • dmun
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    You mention numerous blades? Are new fire brick really that hard on the blades? WOW!
    I think blade number five is on my HF saw. I lost count. Like Les, I built more than my dome, but still. The secret to blade longevity is use LOTS of water (more than that micro pump can move) and very little cutting pressure.
    put a diamond blade in one of the cheap $99 14" cut-off saws.
    It can't be said often enough. In any sort of dry cutting PROTECT YOUR LUNGS.

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    LES:

    I had wondered if the dome bricks could be cut to dry fit well and in essence only mortared on the outside. It would make the vertical cuts MUCH easier due to the simple single angle that reference the center point of the dome. Attempting to create touching vertical joints on the dome side and a constant 1/4" gap on the outside introduces odd angles that don't reference the center point of the dome and change for each course.

    Are you the only builder who has used no mortar in the vertical joints and instead dry fit them?

    To the other experienced builders: Thoughts on this method? I sure like the way Les's dome turned out.
    Last edited by BeanAnimal; 03-24-2011, 04:06 AM.

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  • Les
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Originally posted by BeanAnimal View Post
    LES:
    I don't follow. You ONLY cut the sides and left the top and bottom parallel? So in effect you reduced the vertical joint size and decided to live with the larger horizontal joints. I presume due to the limitation of the saw's depth of cut as well?
    Correct. There was zero mortar on the sides and interior of the oven. But, I had about 5/8 of an inch between bricks on the exterior. As David pointed out, all that work adds nothing to the end result - food.

    Also, I recall going into my third blade (cheap ones). I was cutting paver's as well and they will eat up a blade a LOT faster then the fire brick.

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