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Strength vs Simplicity

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  • Neil2
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    "but I can't bring myself to fill such large gaps with mortar. "

    Fill the larger gaps with "extended" mortar. Anything over a 1/4 inch, extend your mortar by mixing 2:1 with mortar sand (in effect have two batches of mortar). Also use bits of wedge shaped bricks left over from your cutting. All this will reduce shrinkage cracking.

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  • BeanAnimal
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Not to diminish the hard and beautiful work that dozens of folks here have done, but I can't bring myself to fill such large gaps with mortar. I almost feel I MUST bevel and taper (angle?) each brick for a better fit.

    You mention numerous blades? Are new fire brick really that hard on the blades? WOW!

    I have the 10" HF saw so it would appear that I am going to have some trouble. I have a few fractional HP motors laying around, I may have to throw together a makeshift saw with a 12" or 14" blade for the deeper angle cuts, or put a diamond blade in one of the cheap $99 14" cut-off saws.

    LES:
    I don't follow. You ONLY cut the sides and left the top and bottom parallel? So in effect you reduced the vertical joint size and decided to live with the larger horizontal joints. I presume due to the limitation of the saw's depth of cut as well?

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  • dmun
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Building a perfect fit dome is a matter of some difficulty. It doesn't result in a dome that cooks better: It's an exercise in pure craftsmanship. Remember, that if you are building a dome of the proper thickness, the long cut on the face of the brick will be more than you can cut in one pass on a ten inch wet saw. This is slightly less difficult if you can get tapered refractory bricks, but they are considerably more expensive. In any case, you will end up with mountains of brick slivers and go through a lot of diamond blades.

    We've learned that the best commercial oven builders in Italy only trim the inner edges of the bricks so that they appear to fit on the visible side, and fill the outer gaps afterword.

    The issue of cracking and the particular mortar you use has not been fully answered. Some builders claim no cracking with the home brew mortar, and some, like myself, have lots of cracks despite thin joints and heatstop50 use. (In my case I think that's because I tried to build a thin dome). I think the best plan is to resign yourself to a few cracks no matter how you build your dome.

    The main question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to spend your time building, or cooking. If you want to build something fabulous, you'll get lots of applause from the sidelines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Les
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    Originally posted by BeanAnimal View Post
    That is the interior faces of the brick will touch without (or at least a minimal) mortar joint.
    Bean,
    I did not taper the brick on the top and bottom, I just made a wedge shape and tapered the sides. I was able to achieve what you are talking about.

    Originally posted by BeanAnimal View Post
    Is it worth the extra effort?
    I think it was - you won't see any cracks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul in Rockwall TX
    replied
    Re: Strength vs Simplicity

    It sounds like you're on the right track. Although not a specific answer, I'd suggest using an existing thread in the forum rather than starting a new one when you have questions. I recently started one and was dissapointed how few responses I got. I'm not totally sure how everyone uses the forum, but it seems to me the hot threads get more responses and hits.

    Cutting each brick perfectly and minimizing mortar is a better way to go. My build was quicker and I cut each brick in half with a chisel then tapered them with an angle grinder. works, but not perfect and left bigger gaps. I knew this going in, but I wanted to get it done in my lifetime. I used heatstop 50 and really like the product.

    With mine, because there's alot of mortar, I tried to cure very slowly. I kept wet towels over it for days and weeks as I built the dome to keep it damp and to keep the sun from drying the mortar. I would suggest that method for any build. Also, I soaked bricks overnight, left them out to dry for a while before setting them the next day.

    It was a gradual build over about 6 weeks. After the last brick was in, I let it air cure for 10 days before building a small curing fire. I've been having daily fires for over a week now, and this weekend I'll finally try a hot one.
    Last edited by Paul in Rockwall TX; 03-23-2011, 10:25 AM. Reason: i erased half of my post

    Leave a comment:


  • BeanAnimal
    started a topic Strength vs Simplicity

    Strength vs Simplicity

    I have spent the last two years reading this forum and making notes. I am in the process of designing my build and have a basic question that I can't seem to find a direct answer to.

    I understand that the smaller (thinner) the mortar joint, the stronger it is. I will be using either the FB mortar or HeatStop 50 (opinions as to which is better?).

    Being a closet perfectionist and often making things harder just for the sake of doing so, I am inclined to angle cut the tops and bottoms of bricks in the dome chains to decrease the size of the mortar joints.

    Please correct me if I am wrong or making this too complicated:

    I assume:
    1. less mortar = less of a chance of dome cracking during curing
    2. less mortar = greater overall strength in the dome due to the smaller joints
    3. angled tops and bottoms = smaller exposed front faces = more brick

    I have designed the dome (42" oven) with 1/4" mortar joints on the outside of the dome, tapering to 0" on the inside. That is the interior faces of the brick will touch without (or at least a minimal) mortar joint.

    This means an angle cut of somewhere between 3 and 4 degrees on the top and bottom face of each brick, leaving a face height of about 2.25" if a 1/4" rear mortar jount is used. Is this common and/or acceptable? Is it worth the extra effort?

    If using a similar bevel cut on the sides, is the same wedge shaped mortar profile acceptable (1/4" at the exterior, tapering to 0" where the interior sides of each brick touch)?

    Thanks in advance! Once I get past this design sticking point, I feel I can move forward rather quickly and get my foundadtion ready.
    Last edited by BeanAnimal; 03-23-2011, 10:05 AM.
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