Rustic Primitive Materials

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday
O Annie your poor hands. Gloves at the least, raid the kitchen drawers and find a spatular or something so you can butter that wedge of mortar to the brick. Yes you'll have a couple slide off but you'll get practiced. Vinegar will take away the sting but not repair the damage
Regards dave

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
You might want to buttruse the whole outside with an inch of mortar Bed in some chicken wire for added strength.
Regards dave

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

I thought the permacrete insulation layer would help buttress the whole thing up a

Yes and no.
With a barrel vault you need some serious buttressing to stop the roof from pushing the walls out and falling in.
The roof just wants to lay flat and will be for ever trying to push out the walls, every time you light the oven and it expands the walls will push out just a tad more each time.

Permacrete will sort of help but wont have the desired buttressing effect to stop movement.

You need as Dave has suggested a covering of concrete (mortar is useless as it will just crack and fail) and some reinforcing, chicken wire, fencing or barbed wire will work too.
The reinforcing needn't be too thick, 2" should be fine.

If you go too thick with covering there will be trade off with fuel and time needed to bring the oven to temp, if you go too thin it will just fail and not work.


Wow!!
What a very verbose reply from me......

[brickie in oz]

Re: Actually... No Problemo

I decided to go forward... I am going to do the vault ceiling in strings of arcs that way if one fails only one section will fall...

Thats the weakest way to build a vault, less strength than if they are all tied in together.

I leaned my full body weight into what is already built and it seems sooooo solid I don't foresee the weight of 8 or 9 bricks pushing the wall out... probably missing something very obvious... give me a hint if so!!

I'm off to the beach to see if there are any architects out clamming... very low tide this morning!

No good asking an architect to fix your oven, its like asking a car designer to fix your car.....

Take a look at this site for buttressing.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Another thought... would a configuration of a few arcs like the ribs in a wooden boat but made of iron be possible inside the vault to support the bricks... we have Jake the blacksmith out here who is amazing and could make me something simple... or is that toooooo much? Or maybe all it takes is some kind of bar like you see holding together the walls of old gothic architecture.

Fire and or high heat and steel dont go together, well they do, but in all the wrong ways you are talking about.
The steel will stretch and twist in an oven situation.
and be useless.

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
Brickie as usual is right ,that's a recipe for a disaster.
Annie, Annie you always amaze me with the different pathways that you continually try turn into. I mean this in the nicest possible way, you must never stop thinking.
The forum build ovens based on the wisdom of those 2000 yr old Pompeii oven builders using newer materials and methods. You have collected a good pile of both wisdom and materials for an oven build so let's stick ( as closely as Annie possible ) to one plan and get this done. Cause its warming up from winter perfect oven building wheather( here its cooling down from one hot wet summer again perfect oven building wheather)
As always awaiting you next post with interest...Go Girl!
Regards dave

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
Ha a photo .....now that's looking remarkably Good. Nothing like a photo to clear things up. And I can see what's been holding thing up or in this case what's not holding things up those gapes in the middle and end of the arch. You have got to have brick to brick contact.

Now I know that the photo is on its side but if you have a look at the junction of the arch and the wall that little slither of brick that's what you need. That's been cut with a brick bulster in fact my whole oven has.
Now they don't have to be perfect brick to brick contact is what your after. Mortar will fill the imperfections. So what if there not flush and poke up a bit ... No one will see them in the end cause there on the outside of the oven and will be covered with mortar.
Regards Dave
PS I lay no claim to the wisdom but I will except ancient I'm a retired sailor ....I think last captain I served under Noah

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

You need to go an raid the kitchen cupboard again and make another arch profile, unless you already have two?
Find some battens and make the oven profile like the drawing, that way you can lay the whole oven roof as one.

Dont worry about getting the profile out, it will just burn out when you have finished.

The inside joints need to be so thin that they are almost nothing, the outside joints will of course be bigger.

Dave will poke fun at my pic, but its all Ive got in my drawing skills.

Edit:-
I meant to also add that we have been down the wrong end of struggle street too, we bought a "very successful" business off some so called friends of ours and it nearly ruined us, we came so close many times to loosing the house.
Hang in there.

[Bacterium]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Brickie is just fitting in with the topical nature of this thread.....

Rustic.

[mrchipster]

Re: Voila!!

OK... here it is...

I have put the form on two wooden 'skids' so I can get it out once the vault roof sets... do not want to burn the particle board it may contaminate my oven... cupboards are made with all kinds of nasty stuff.

I did not cut the batten ends because I never cut unless it is absolutely necessary... only have a hand saw & the battens are actually stakes for my garden.

I recommend to add some tapered shims under your skids to raise them slightly the shims can be removed easily and make it much easier to remove the skids later.

Chip

[cobblerdave]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
The 63 per cent figure actually comes from a study down in the 70s on wood fired ovens in Canada and is an average of the ovens studied. If your less than 2/3 oven height and you are you good to go. Oven height is 1/2 inch over optimum if you keep quite about that I will not say a word.
Buy the way that is shaping up to be quite a Pretty oven, suits its surounds
Regards Dave

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Gudday Annie
The 63 per cent figure actually comes from a study down in the 70s on wood fired ovens in Canada and is an average of the ovens studied.

I think it all comes from way before 1970.

More.

[ATK406]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Please, Please , Please take lots of pictures of your finished oven...and everything in between. Yours is such a unique design it should be appreciated by everyone....Sorry, I'm such a junkie for WFO pictures..I must have close to 500 saved so far, not all mine, thanks to you.

Regards,
AT

[brickie in oz]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

Its getting there Annie....

[Tscarborough]

Re: Rustic Primitive Materials

8-1 4" will be good, 10-1 better but hard to work with.