Structural Slab for new WFO

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

That is very interesting!
I have always lived in a cooler climate, northern hemisphere, utilized direction for solar gain, morning sun to help usher in the day, evening sun to usher out the day--recreation spaces south/west to keep insects at bay.

Some here do planning of structures-all based upon orientation North/South, something to do with luck or superstition????. But do not know the "word" something like "fu-su-ee". Actually shows up on architects' building permit application!

Also never realized the size of Australia.. Thanks for the lesson!
Is it true about the direction water swirls as it goes to drain--different in hemispheres as well?

Yes the water does drain the other way in the southern hemisphere. Cyclones also rotate in a clockwise direction unlike hurricanes in the Nthn. Hemisphere which rotate anti clockwise.
Where we live nobody likes the prospect of introducing daylight saving. We are happy when the sun goes down, for us it's just heat saving.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

That is very interesting!
I have always lived in a cooler climate, northern hemisphere, utilized direction for solar gain, morning sun to help usher in the day, evening sun to usher out the day--recreation spaces south/west to keep insects at bay.

Some here do planning of structures-all based upon orientation North/South, something to do with luck or superstition????. But do not know the "word" something like "fu-su-ee". Actually shows up on architects' building permit application!

Also never realized the size of Australia.. Thanks for the lesson!
Is it true about the direction water swirls as it goes to drain--different in hemispheres as well?

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

[QUOTE
Off the wall thought.. Your seasons are opposite of the Northern Hemisphere Continents, do you typically face buildings to the North for sun exposure?[/QUOTE]

yes that is true for southern Australia or colder regions. We live in the tropics and are not looking for any extra sun, even in the winter.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Well, that is going to mean--getting those "old wheels" bolted on and moving the assembly near the garage door opening. I have a southern exposure so the doors get opened for the mornings--

Get the drying effect from Sun and some of the dust can get blown out of the garage or vice versa. Not the same wind or sun as outdoors, but always dry.

So--this is one of the down sides of pericrete.
Thanks for the warning.

Off the wall thought.. Your seasons are opposite of the Northern Hemisphere Continents, do you typically face buildings to the North for sun exposure?

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

For stucco layer, are you meaning "any cement type coating" including the scratch coat, OR just the final coat that essentially waterproofs the job?

I meant any cement layer. Removing the water without the assistance of sun and wind is going to be problematic.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

For stucco layer, are you meaning "any cement type coating" including the scratch coat, OR just the final coat that essentially waterproofs the job?

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

10:1, Didn't think I had the ability to try larger ratios.
I have the dome covered in plastic for the night, hopefully for the small amount of portland to---set??

I saw a post somewhere about using a high wattage quartz lamp to bring up temps inside the oven to drive out water.

Any other suggestions for a drying out? Garage temperatures 24/7 @ 19degC.
I can change that by simply turning up the thermostat, but that is going to cost more in kerosene to run the boiler for floor heating.

Thank you for the information and watching this thread!

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Good job Mikku,
I hope you kept the mixture lean as cement reduces the insulation value enormously.it also takes LOTS of water, about one third of the volume of perlite approx. and that water needs to be removed before you do the stucco layer.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Pericrete technique: Fairly dry pericrete mixture, use a rubber float to hold finish surface-other hand place loose mix in place, press a little and hold. Keep working in rings. When high enough or when the surface feels firm, run the float across the surface to shave high spots--also can fill in lows.

I used a small plastering trowel to clean up the bottom edge and lightly touch up the surface. It seemed a little harder--did not want too smooth.

Only used my hand width as gauge of insulation thickness.. If someone wants it done better, they can do it themselves! This is close enough for me. Tomorrow will finish covering the dome and bring insulation to base of chimney vent--no chimney for 3-5 days!

Everytime I play with new materials, I am surprised with the shape hidden in the pile of materials. Work it a little and fun things pop out. This same thing happens with pieces of wood. Cut, sand, plane, route da, da, da and a house pops out, or a chair, boat, ... really never know what is hiding in the pile of material until you start working with it! That is why I like working with my hands!

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Out with the new and in with the old and stronger!

My fabricator delivered his contribution to my build--old wheels to carry the oven load! Photo: 122kg max/wheel vs 460kg max/wheel. This should make moving this inside the garage easier & safer. He also brought news on the chimney--I am looking at around Y9500 for my home-fabricated stainless chimney! Around $100 US! Have to go with it--in budget!

Decided on oven- It is going to be an igloo! No fancy, bells and whistles. Perlite insulation 4" thickness-scratch coat of some type of home brew plaster, finish coat of "shikkui", off the shelf "plaster coat" white colored--used a lot on old homes, castles, fences--I think that it has hemp fiber or some other natural fiber to add crack resistance! It is supposed to be water-resistant if not proof?

Also started insulating and had a fun day working in the mud. The fancy angles and joints mean nothing once covered!

Maybe this oven will see fire by the end of the month!

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Laurentius,
Thank you for your input as always!

The guy you used has to be a lot brighter than the "local distributor of masonry stuff here" or you have to be a lot better at Eigo-Nihongo than you claim.

The translation for lime- is: a citrus fruit, an agriculture additive, white powdery substance, component of drywall. Nothing to indicate qualities of water proofing, texture altering, adhesive qualities, component in masonry construction. So I do come across as "baka gaijin!" (crazy or stupid foreigner for those w/o Japan vocabulary)--sometimes worse if combined with other words!

Maybe your Japanese assistant knows what is in the "little plastic baggie" that the masons use! Probably not lime, but something with similar characteristics? Could you ask him--next time you see him? He had to use something for preparing the mortar for your firebrick work. Maybe he can give a "kanji", all I get is some kind of "sekkai" and that is recognized as the "lime for changing Ph in soil.

This is "all for information purposes only" - Passed the need to know phase.

[Laurentius]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

First reason-maintain flue temp for good draft. (Something from rocket-stove reading), own experience with soot/creasote build up issues, assumed causes of oven smoking at start-up, die-down cycle.

2) Double-wall chimney parts- listed in brochure: (about) $150- starter ring, needs to be adapted to my build, starter collar (same), 6"-thru 4' chimney sections $150-$300, roof flashing, $150 (about), storm flashing, ($30), termination cap ($150-), straps or other supports...+,+ So double-wall is price issue.

3) Have not sorted out if "igloo" finish or "enclosing structure", both have advantages. If enclosure, would want double-wall for roof penetration. Want to be covered either way--then can proceed with insulating dome. Right now a roadblock!

4) Brick or stone- The seismic region where I live, makes masonry chimneys any height a problem. I asked about "simple flues" the clay type??--simply not available. Also, thinking about working with bricks...puts me in a panic mode...no experience...yikes...something to screw up!!!

5) Regular stainless stove pipe is available every home center or hardware store. Used for all burning devices- kerosene, fuel oil, sheetmetal wood burning box stoves. (But soot build-up an issue unless you can keep them hot!)

Now that brings us full circle back to (1)!

Here is an off the wall question. In the past, I have looked for "masonry cement" here. No one knows what I am talking about? I explain it is used to make mortar more of an adhesive and makes spreading easier. The answer I always get is "we don't know" or they point me to a little package of powder sold in baggie sizes. They say the masons add to portland to do what I am saying! Anyone know what that little baggie might contain??

Please "no magic dust!" - that is what they say!

Same goes for "lime"- no one knows what it is! But all types of plasters are available! It should be a "stand alone" product and not sold only as a a specialty item. Back -"North" always had it in a bucket in the outhouse at the lake! Had a dipper to toss the stuff over your "job" to keep the flies from gathering!

Mikku-sama,

I think your problem is that you're not asking the right questions. Everything that need, I had to get for my oven. The person that help me build my oven does not speak English and I do not speak Japanese, but he flip out his iphone and I spelled the word such as "lime" and his translator comes up with a few meaning and we discussed them and problems solved. Do you have a good Eigo-Nihongo-Nihongo-Eigo Dictionary? If not get one to minimize your problems, otherwise you come out as a Baka-gaijin.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Russell

My sheetmetal guy came over later yesterday. He needed something ordered from Italy. He is really into cycling and fashion. There is a new line from Cannondale --their 2013 jerseys etc that he wanted.. Anyway.

I was explaining to him "the beautiful work by the architect in Chicago". I mentioned "doh" the Japanese term for copper and - "diamondo" as the shape of the roofing. He immediately started talking how to do it. One thing interesting he said was: You do not need to divide your dome into equal segments--Just lines from pole to equator--spacing not important (only if you want uniformity to piece sizes). If you vary the spacing, you get a more random design. Just need to follow these lines. He said that metal thickness is usually .35mm and up. (.35, .4, .5, .6) all in mm thickness. Thickness over .6 would not be a sheetmetal person's job---changes to a fabricator.

I would imagine you would have to follow course lines though...But have not thought of it enough to form an opinion.

I thought you might be interested. He also mentioned the pattern name for that roofing design. But I forgot. I can talk to him again when he comes to pick up his jersey in a few days. He usually asks me to order because I can read the english homepage and he does not use credit cards or paypal. Tough to order on line without them.

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

First reason-maintain flue temp for good draft. (Something from rocket-stove reading), own experience with soot/creasote build up issues, assumed causes of oven smoking at start-up, die-down cycle.

2) Double-wall chimney parts- listed in brochure: (about) $150- starter ring, needs to be adapted to my build, starter collar (same), 6"-thru 4' chimney sections $150-$300, roof flashing, $150 (about), storm flashing, ($30), termination cap ($150-), straps or other supports...+,+ So double-wall is price issue.

3) Have not sorted out if "igloo" finish or "enclosing structure", both have advantages. If enclosure, would want double-wall for roof penetration. Want to be covered either way--then can proceed with insulating dome. Right now a roadblock!

4) Brick or stone- The seismic region where I live, makes masonry chimneys any height a problem. I asked about "simple flues" the clay type??--simply not available. Also, thinking about working with bricks...puts me in a panic mode...no experience...yikes...something to screw up!!!

5) Regular stainless stove pipe is available every home center or hardware store. Used for all burning devices- kerosene, fuel oil, sheetmetal wood burning box stoves. (But soot build-up an issue unless you can keep them hot!)

Now that brings us full circle back to (1)!

Here is an off the wall question. In the past, I have looked for "masonry cement" here. No one knows what I am talking about? I explain it is used to make mortar more of an adhesive and makes spreading easier. The answer I always get is "we don't know" or they point me to a little package of powder sold in baggie sizes. They say the masons add to portland to do what I am saying! Anyone know what that little baggie might contain??

Please "no magic dust!" - that is what they say!

Same goes for "lime"- no one knows what it is! But all types of plasters are available! It should be a "stand alone" product and not sold only as a a specialty item. Back -"North" always had it in a bucket in the outhouse at the lake! Had a dipper to toss the stuff over your "job" to keep the flies from gathering!

[UtahBeehiver]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

looks great. Glad you got the dome in place. Sounds like you used the gray matter to find a way of to solve your move. Nice looking set up.