Structural Slab for new WFO

[Gulf]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Im not camp. ................................

Well I'll be d@mn. A "redneck" from Mississippi is learning to speak a second/third language!!. I think it was General George Patton ( at least in the movie) who (I think) gave credit to George Bernard Shaw, who said "we are two countries separated by a common language"

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

I used "Websters" definition as meaning: a group of persons; esp : a group engaged in promoting or defending a theory, doctrine, position, or person.

Both you "Brickie of Oz" and "Davids" give differing viewpoints on the same topic of WFO's.

I wasn't suggesting that you were displaying exaggerated effeminate mannerisms--ah you were just making fun again! Really have to watch what I write!

I've been right out of the sticks all my life--that is where I like being from! --it might show in my writing! Too bad, that is me!

[brickie in oz]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

I see the different camps from Australia have checked in.

Im not camp. ................................

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

I see the different camps from Australia have checked in. Glad to hear from both of you!

A homepage that really caught my eye is: BASF
If you first click--from Japanese to English, top right corner--the page becomes understandable. Then scroll down to the Reliable Partnership subtitle and there are two videos to watch. Both are very interesting.

They talk about basf product line called SDC. I thought it really interesting in they are providing a vibrationless concrete that reduces placement time considerably and makes an exceptional finish product in castings.

I need to get all the specifics and then try this stuff out myself for small pours.
I know how difficult it is to get a good looking casting and trying to keep balance of proper vibration so that the aggregate does not settle out. I really hate to see honeycomb concrete after a lot of preparation time making a mold.

Maybe this is new...or been around for years, but this is the first time I saw this product. I am sure there are many companies making similar products. Might work great for cast counters, thin slabs, ornamental concrete... I just haven't seen it before.

[david s]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

I use Sika Viscocrete 2210. i'm not a chemist, but I'm sure it is a pretty distant relative of liquid detergent that we are familiar with to wash dishes. Tons of research has gone into the formulation of super plasticisers to ensure they are compatible with concrete to improve strength, plasticity, finish and reduce shrinkage. Using the correct product that has undergone rigorous testing is prudent IMO.

[brickie in oz]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Located a super plasticizer and have high hopes for using it in different applications. The brand I will be using is an international company with offices in Japan. Their instructions are available in both Japanese and English. It is amazing what chemistry can do--even for something down to earth as concrete!
Looking forward to using the new product and experimenting with it! Thanks David s for bringing the topic to my attention!

Liquid detergent?

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Saturday I did a little shopping for Sunday feast. Asked a good friend what fish would cook well in a WFO and he recommended Tai. The English name for this fish is RED SNAPPER. Picked up a 5 pound whole fish and had it gutted and scaled at the market--ready for a sunday meal.

This is the first time in weeks that the oven was fired. The kindling was not 100% dry because of rain on Friday, and it took a little longer to actually get the fire going. Once burning, I added oak twice--first time 3 pieces--3" around; second time 5 pieces various sizes but all under 4". That was the total wood requirement to bring the oven from ambient to 470 deg C plus. Before noon, I let the fire die down and removed the coals. The oven sat from noon til
around 4 and the temp ...oven door on was still 265C. This was a little high for fish, but the concoction was salt & herb encrusted Red Snapper with lemon slices in the belly cavity. first time so had to watch the cook closely--

After 25 minutes the salt dome was slightly brown, an additional 15 minutes and I took the fish out. I let it sit another 15 minutes encrusted in salt then checked on the doneness. The fish was done but extremely moist, almost to the point of being mushy.

Probably should have left it in another 10 minutes and possibly the water would have burnt itself out. But too late for that. It was a very mild tasting fish, enjoyed by all--actually we dipped portions into salt to get more flavor. good thing that fresh fish is cheap here. About the same price per kg as regular hamburger--but a lot more healthy to eat.

I think that the oven is cured and dry now. Zero cracks on the inside, dome clears totally after maybe 1.5 hours, the perlite outer insulation shell has cracks like tectonic plates on the earth--same for the render coat.

Now have to make plans to do the final render coats; add some stucco mesh and finish up with shikui--plaster top coat. same product used for outside of castles and fences around zairai homes in Japan. I might choose a pigment instead of the traditional pure white.

Also on Saturday, moved the oven via forklift to my driveway---the prolonged presence on the lawn was killing off last years hard work with preparing a base and sodding. Now, it is in a location that it is not crowded and I can easily cover and uncover it while I put the finish coats on the dome.

I think I'll start making forms for a smaller version of my oven. Mine is much to large for regular japanese households; but the concept of a WFO is still valid and I think there are a lot of people who would use an oven if it were small enough; light enough; and friendly as far as wood consumption goes. Thinking about a smaller version with 2' interior finish dimension--and try to lighten and cheapen things up! This will be a nice exercise in formwork again.

This "structural slab for WFO" has run it's course. The work was not that difficult, castable refractory is very forgiving even with erratic burns and sometimes way over heating.. Next time, probably no pericrete and a different design. No dome..just an enclosure and poured insulation. Once that the forms are completed; maybe one week to finish an oven ready for firing! That is the next challenge.

Located a super plasticizer and have high hopes for using it in different applications. The brand I will be using is an international company with offices in Japan. Their instructions are available in both Japanese and English. It is amazing what chemistry can do--even for something down to earth as concrete!
Looking forward to using the new product and experimenting with it! Thanks David s for bringing the topic to my attention!

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Got a couple of things on the for the upcoming week-end. Got to move the oven from the middle of the lawn to somewhere on the driveway. It has been sitting in one spot for many weeks now and if it isn't moved, all the grass will die in its footpring...so back to borrowing the forklift.

Next is trying to make Finnish rye bread again. Hopefully by Saturday, my oven door will be complete. Making it from 1.6 stainless steel with tapping for oven BM thermometer, threaded studs to accomodate handles and able to be disassembled to place insulation in the sandwich core-40mm thick door. If I cannot get it done, can still use the temporaty plywood door. It retains the heat just fine.

With an door mounted thermometer, I can better judge the temperature and maybe avoid the problem of burnt food!

Next is figuring out a final place for the oven and what kind of structure will cover the WFO and other outdoor space. Am tired of the tarp and having to worry about rain. Guess it will all work in time.

The last time the oven was fired, started the oven early then left it unattended--the entire oven cleared as well as the transition areas. The temperatures of the refractory near the exterior opening (oya ishi basho) were quite cool compared to the near 1000F interior temps. This week-end I'll try for two days burning and see if the whole thing has dried out.

Been looking for recipe's for different kinds of sausages. There is a very good Slovenian meat shop in Gilbert, Minnesota that makes great sausages--wish I could get some of those home recipes...wishful thinking though--family secrets!

[mrchipster]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Chip, Nice looking ribs. Are you using a hand mixed rub? Does that cut have a name? If not I'd suggest the bear claw. Good use of the apple wood. I did a chuck roast yesterday with a combination of apple and hard maple.
John

I use a home made rub most of the time but this rub was "Weber Kick'n Chicken" seasoning. The cut was an attempt to get a good smoke penetration and I like a little dryer and chewer rib. I do not think the cut has a name but who knows.

We also sauced them at the table with a home made sauce.

Chip

[silvfox]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Chip, Nice looking ribs. Are you using a hand mixed rub? Does that cut have a name? If not I'd suggest the bear claw. Good use of the apple wood. I did a chuck roast yesterday with a combination of apple and hard maple.
John

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

I lived on Park Point while going to UMD, the fall before joining the Marine Corps. They really have some crazy weather in that port town! Must have made me crazy enough to volunteer right in the middle of the Viet Nam War!
Yikes--really crazy nuts!

One spring there was ice jambed up in the harbor in June.

The year that the Edmund Fitzgerald sunk was also a pretty cold one--think it was 1975--back in college by then! Still had all my parts--must have been lucky not to have been sent into the war zone!

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Probably a combination of cold temperatures and unusual amounts of snow. About 20 years ago, when I still was living up there---we had similar conditions--went snowmobiling with some friends, back when you could get away with drinking and snowmobiling...The friend named "Bill" was really sauced and wanted to ride on the lakes---he got bogged down in the slush with one of those heavy big machines...if he hadn't stopped to pee, would have been fine. Spent most of the evening trying to get him out of the mess.

I have a friend of mine that has a fabrication shop. I can get most metals from him in almost any thickness. One thread said 1.6 mm aluminum and another said same for stainless. I thought of cutting the pieces the way I liked them and have my friend weld in pieces where a pole or pipe could attach. He has cut offs that I can sort through. I'm sure a day off with him in his shop could produce some very nice tools... But right now...really no time.

Those ribs look great, I can almost taste them. There is supposed to be a place to purchase different cuts of meat here called "The Meat Guy"--usually meat with bones attached are not sold here. That is true specially for US imported meat and same for Australian Beef. something to do with mad cow worries. I usually buy whole loins of pork either US or Canadian and cut my own chops.

Anyone on this web make any sausage that they would share a secret recipe?

I don't have any plans on returning to Minnesota in the near future, I'm really tired of the flight between Tokyo and MSP...too long and cannot afford Business or 1st Class... A big guy gets pretty cramped up in Economy! I talk to relatives in Minnesota every Sunday via Skype in a way to stay in contact.

My chisels and planes are usually pretty sharp--can shave with them also. The guy in Ely's instructions make sense and the blades sharpen a whole lot quicker than I was used to. Some things might take longer to prepare the right angle in the first place--like a buck knife type of knife I carry around..but reading his book is no waste of time. I do not know if there are free downloads somewhere or not--but it is not that expensive to buy.

When I returned to USA in 2001, I worked with a couple of young carpenters. Their chisels were more like putty knives but with more chips. I showed them how I could chisel through oak with a couple of taps and they could not believe it. I do not know if they continued to sharpen like I showed them or not--but at least they saw what sharp should be.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts and photos!
Gary

[mrchipster]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

I made my metal peel out of a pizza pan, I cut off the rim with an angle grinder and screwed it to a wood pole.

All my other tools are also home made. Some I will be getting rid of because of obvious design flaws but some are very useful.

I will look into the tool sharpening company. Thanks.

BTW northern Minnesota had the latest ice out in history this year and several lakes had ice until last week.

Keep on cooking, it will get better.

Apple smoked ribs from last night.

The local hooch sounds interesting, I might need to pay a visit. And if you venture back here you are always welcome to stop in.

Chip

[mikku]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

The reason I'm doing my pizza at low temps is because "no oven tools yet"!
I have to rely on what is lying around the kitchen-that I can scrounge without getting too much grief-for entering someone elses sacred space!

One thing I just cannot understand--Like in the case of a kitchen...the guy does all the work making an entire kitchen from scratch and when it is finished, the spouse declares it "their space"!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I know why bakers work at night... More private time to play with their ovens!

Guess I'll have to change my lifestyle --from drinking the local hooch to all times of the morning--to fiddling with an oven n drinking local hooch to all times of the morning!

Thanks for the temperature/time info--and other baking tips.

BTW, talked to some people at Razor Edge Systems in Ely...they said that the lakes had opened but a lot of ice damage from strong winds in some areas of the state! I was ordering some hones and sharpening guide from this company...lived in the vacinity for 45 years and never heard of them. Try to perfect sharpening skills from Japanese finish carpenters and my latest partner gives me a book on sharpening in English from a guy name John Juranitch. Really amazing results on block planes, chisels, axes, knives..etc. Told the same story to the manufacturer and they are sending me a free copy of the sharpening book signed by the author!!! Check it out!

[mrchipster]

Re: Structural Slab for new WFO

Anybody ever design a vacuum type cleaner to take hot ash and coals from the oven? Bet it could be done if a person were careful with materials--nice to clean out junk when it is still hot!

First pizza is better with live fire and door off. And at 700-900 F.

Second general rule for baking is done in the oven at 50-150 F. Higher than conventional oven for about 60% of the normal time. i.e. 10 minute normal bake would be 6 min in WFO.

Third get a rake and metal dust pan to rake out the coals and most of the ash, put them in a metal air tight container, they make great charcoal for grilling or smoking smudge fire for meats, and then make yourself a blow pipe. The remaining ash when blown will get into the air inside the hot oven and blow right up the flue. Do not mess around with a vacuum.

I used an aluminum ski pole as my blow pipe it is wide at the top and tapers nicely to concentrate the air. Others have used copper tubing/pipe with a reducing coupling at the end to reduce the diameter at the end.

Chip