Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

[ronwass]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Mikku: I do worry about frost heave, but a few things:

1. Your recommendation that I dig a 5 foot square hole and then pour a base slab three feet below grade is just crazy mad-talk overkill, and leads me to believe that some of your other advice may be overkill too.

2. Why would frost not heave a sonotube up like you say it would a wood girder? Wouldn't there perhaps be less friction on wood than on concrete?

3. Nothing is going to come anywhere close to "popping out of the ground" around here, even if concreted in ABOVE frost level.

4. Many people here have built their ovens on slabs ON grade. That's actually the recommendation. In another thread, I questioned if that was proper, and annoyed some people with my arguments, but eventually realized that even if the slab moved, that the hearth, if properly reinforced, would retain its structural integrity. The worst that would happen is that the oven will go a tiny bit out of level. I'm taking the EXTRA precaution of going below frost depth.

5. Will my stand not move a millimeter for 30 years? Probably not, but it's not going to move any more than most structures being discussed here.

6. Are my posts going to last forever? No, but probably they will last as long as the oven itself remains in functional repair. If not, in 15 or 20 years I can replace one or two, if I have the strength to dig a hole at that age.

7. Telling me to worry about pressure treated lumber coming near my food is bizarre! Between the wood and the pizza will be 3.5 inches of concrete, 2 inches of insblock insulation, and 2.5 inches of brick. People use the railing caps of my pressure treated lumber deck as standing tables all the time. There is only a coat of paint and a paper plate between that wood and their food. No-one has been poisoned at my house yet. Now even the insulation and bricks are made of potentially hazardous materials, but worrying about them being poisonous is almost as bad as worrying about being killed by a dictator or the weather. It sadly happens, but you can't stand around worrying about it.

Regards,

Ron

[mikku]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

You hit it right on the head!
People get annoyed because you ask for advice-
Then when advice is given, you want to argue about the merits of the advice.

Please go to a professional engineer or architect and have your project designed.
Then you can argue all you want with them once you get their bill--more when you have to pay for it!

You ever see "any treated wood objects" in any professional food preparation area? A big NO! Because "exactly what I told you--it is not allowed"!

People didn't think asbestos, lead paint, mercury or even radiation was dangerous! Dah!

If you have any more questions--surely you should consult the guy from Virginia who doesn't get flustered easily.

[mikku]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

I should apologize.

I chose to respond to your thread, so it is my fault you think I'm a just crazy-mad-talk overkill foundation designer! You did not seek me out!

I guess sharing information means giving it freely and not expecting people to agree with what you say.

It is unfortunate that you cannot grasp the concept I am presenting, I have no way of creating an example using terms in music that you understand---I know none! So it is an impass, you cannot fathom what I am saying nor can you forsee problems in the future. I think in 3D Blueray maybe you think monochrome 8mm?

At the point of your build, which is very preliminary...you have not experienced the effort of actually constructing your oven. Once it is complete, you will want to keep it in prestine condition--so you do not have to do it again. When all your work on this oven is completed, you may have some different thoughts.

I prefer "overkill" to insufficient.

All that being said, keep an open mind---enjoy this new hobby, it can be frustrating, but...it is an opportunity to relax by taking your mind away from your normal activities...the more diverse the better. I used sarcasm several times in various posts, probably inappropriate. oreshiranzo!

[moderator]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Hello users,
The Forno Bravo forum was created for wood-fired oven enthusiasts to share ideas, recipes, tips, etc.

We appreciate everyone's suggestions and opinions on oven installations and welcome all who are willing to share their ideas.

However, we will NOT tolerate aggressive or abusive posts from users. Every member has the right to post their thoughts on oven topics but it must be delivered with tact and consideration of others.

If this should continue, members will be banned until further notice and/or indefinitely.

We want to ensure the forum is a pleasurable experience for all.

Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns. Thank you.

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Thanks Moderator,

[mikku]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Sorry to see that you still do not understand.
I thought I made my point crystal clear. If you really want to learn something then you have to do "your own researching"-. I'm sure that the topic is covered in some of the basic courses for architects.

Don't think I'm giving in to you--just tired of repeating the same thing without any signs of understanding?

[mikku]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Good Day Ronwass,

I think that you should really speak with a building official in your area. They should be able to give you site specific information and local rules that would pertain to your oven build. The rules are printed as a "basic guideline" for construction and take many factors into effect. But you must remember- simply meeting standards does not necessarily mean that it will work. Soil types, condition of soil, ground water, runoff, proximity to buildings and trees play important roles.

Another consideration when making a building permit application, if you have a desire to vary from the rules, you can get a variance. But this might require the stamp of a licensed architect or engineer.

The role of a licensed builder is to comply with local regulations and to alert homeowners and the building officials of problems that may not be written into code. Common sense plays a big factor when working with local governments. Updates to codes are made on a periodic basis ---but printing costs makes the updates few and far between and the code usually out of date by the time it is printed.

All that being said, I hope that you took appropriate steps in getting approval for constructing your oven. You will surely enjoy it when it is completed.

[Faith In Virginia]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

I should apologize. ( You should,but you did not)

I chose to respond to your thread, so it is my fault you think I'm a just crazy-mad-talk overkill foundation designer! You did not seek me out! (true)

I guess sharing information means giving it freely and not expecting people to agree with what you say. (You "GUESS sharing....???)

It is unfortunate that you cannot grasp the concept I am presenting, I have no way of creating an example using terms in music that you understand---I know none! So it is an impass, you cannot fathom what I am saying nor can you forsee problems in the future. I think in 3D Blueray maybe you think monochrome 8mm?So, "I think in 3D Blueray maybe you think monochrome 8mm" I see this as another insult and not an apology

At the point of your build, which is very preliminary...you have not experienced the effort of actually constructing your oven. Once it is complete, you will want to keep it in prestine condition--so you do not have to do it again. When all your work on this oven is completed, you may have some different thoughts.

I prefer "overkill" to insufficient.

All that being said, keep an open mind---enjoy this new hobby, it can be frustrating, but...it is an opportunity to relax by taking your mind away from your normal activities...the more diverse the better. I used sarcasm several times in various posts, probably inappropriate. oreshiranzo! There is a big difference between sarcastic and being rude, and yes rude is inappropriate, no "probably" about it. Also the little smile face at the end does not make the post friendly.

Mikku, I regret trying to hold a conversation with you so I removed my posts to you. So in that spirit of the schoolyard playground...I took it back.

Ronwass, I sincerely apologize for being sucked into that conversation and mucking up your thread about your build. All my future posts will be on point.

Looking forward to your next update on your build.

Faith

[ronwass]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Thank you Moderator.

[ronwass]

My busiest day yet.

Well, it was hot and humid today, but it is my only day off this week, so i really got going. I need to still put some joist hangers, and then build the wood storage shelf.

My plan after this is to put down a layer of hardiback 1/2' cement board and then build a 2X4 form around and up from that to pour the hearth.

My question is, do you think that I need some kind of removable plywood support under the hardibacker while the slab is curing? Or will the hardibacker hold the concrete with just the support of these 10 inch spaced joists?

Regards,

Ron

[stonecutter]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

If you use 1/2" Durock you should be just fine without support.

[mikku]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Mikku, I regret trying to hold a conversation with you so I removed my posts to you. So in that spirit of the schoolyard playground...I took it back.

Ronwass, I sincerely apologize for being sucked into that conversation and mucking up your thread about your build. All my future posts will be on point.

Looking forward to your next update on your build.

Faith

I was not talking to you! or about you, I was speaking to Ronwass about his build.

If FIV wants to take something back, why not delete the entire post? Why leave people dangling with what was unsaid. I see nothing rude in my posts..only someone who takes criticism way too personal.

As for "Ronwass", if you have a particular way you intend to do something; simply do it! Don't look for other peoples approval to do it your way! I'll watch your build, but will try not to comment... that is; if FIW decides to give it a rest!

It is good to see that little commotion did not affect your project! When it is over, you should enjoy your oven.

[mikku]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

I see your latest handywork on the base-

You should take Gulf's advice in post (#20) about notching in your rim joist --but you are too far along for that; unless you want to unscrew your joints and make the adjustments.

He also advises as a retro (like too far to turn back) adding 2x material below the rim to help carry the weight. If your posts are 6x6- a 2x6 added below one side, and a 2x8 added on the other side (making a square corner)--these 2x materials if screwed vigorously to the posts will prevent your rim from sliding down!

Right now, if you put hardie board on top of the framed platform, the rim joist and inner joisting virtually support nothing once the slab is poured. The tops of the 6x6 posts carry the brunt of the load. All the joists are doing is holding the posts in a fixed position.

Since your main points of contact for support are the posts, when you prepare to form for your slab and add reinforcement, make sure that you have a perimeter ring of rebar with L's bent to form the corner. Use the rule of thumb for laps of 40 rebar diameters for each lap. This will help assure that the weight of the slab and other things added above is supported at those 4 points.

It would not hurt to use anchor bolts (upside down) L's embedded in slab; tied to rebar other end attached to base post. This will assure- hold down after the slab cures.

If there is any architect or engineer who disputes the technique as described above as bad building practice please prove my advice wrong!

[SCChris]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

Ron the Hardiebacker should be fine for the underlying support of the slab. Remember that concrete and steel are cheap relative to the project. If you don't have any basis, with concrete, add just enough water to the concrete to allow you to get it into the form and around the steel. Spend a bit of time working the voids out.

Chris

[Tscarborough]

Re: Rockland County, NY 36" build with pictures.

"The customer always being right - phrase refers to they ultimately hold the purse string." - Mikku

That does that make them right, it makes you a fool for agreeing to work for them.

Everything you have done looks fine to me, Ronwass. Almost every oven stand I have seen built here was overkill by about 80% anyway. If I was to make any suggestion at all, it would be to put some through-bolted kickers on all the corners.