Corner Build Help Needed

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Many thanks for the tips boys,

Its not something I wanted to do, but I will, is to cut the top blocks to the desired height, nice one Neill
As for the 'kickboard' good idea, Damon,(Bacterium great name! will you share how you came by it? Or is it a secret only you and your doctor knows about)
I will wear the shoes that I usually wear when I go out drinking, the ones with with square toes, so I can get closer to the bar.

Its the little things like this that are often overlooked and only through peoples shared experience do we learn and inovate.
Many thanks to all of you. for being on hand with your much valued knowledge

Paul

[Bacterium]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

... Don't even tell my doctor...

Nah got it from when I used to do a bit of hobby cheese making. It's singular and hopefully more the good bacteria.

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Ok Damon, your secrets safe with us.

Thats a very interesting hobby!, A neighbour came to visit us when we arrived here and proceeded to demonstrate to us how to make yogourt. 'kilcelo mlyako'( secret recipe by all acounts for the last thousand years!) and funnily enough the secret seemed to be in the home made yeast and a body heat maintained temperature over night.

Cheers Damon
Paul

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

NEW INFORMATION.

Just in case anyone needs this information in Bulgaria.

In an earlier post, I said I was informed that 40x20x20 blocks were not avialable in Bulgaria.
NOT TRUE.
When I went to the merchants to buy my blocks today, they now tell me they have sourced a supplier so I can have the 40x20x20's.
I will have to wait a week for them but hey can be found here, so thought I'd better put right the earlier information.
My apologies and thanks to Neill who had gone to the trouble of drawing up a plan for the other type of blocks.

Paul

[nissanneill]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Hi Paul,
I redid your plan and scale for your 40 x 20 x 20cm blocks. If I remember, you said that your ground level was 10cm below your concrete base so the dimensions are from this point. You will need 4 blocks tall all bar 1cm which can be absorbed in your concrete top. I have also had to remove the mortar joints to stop the blocks from hanging over the edge of your footing.
If it were mine, i would use the 15cm (6" wide )blocks and mortar them and then fill with concrete, especially if they were harder and less brittle/soft blocks.

Cheers.


Neill

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Neill, You are an absolute diamond, No seriously, thats great!

I am going to stick with the wider ones, why?, because I've ordered them with deposit and although I've not seen them, the narrower ones are of a poor quality.

The final height as you say I can adjust a couple of cm with the hearth.
What would be the minimum depth of hearth you would reccomend?

I know you will have a good answer for this one Neill, so, why did you not make the sides equal ? you have one at 80cm and the other at 100cm.
Looking at it if the both sides were 100cm each the opening would be square on to the floor slab. which I have put a curve in.
Would there be a reason not to do this?
On the diagram Neil what did you allow us for the dome insulation to take us up to the edge of the blocks.

Many Thanks again Buddy.
Paul

[SableSprings]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Paul, it looks like you got some great advice on your corner build from Neill and Bacterium. Although I'm late to this thread, I thought you might be interested in another way to do your corner foundation.

I didn't like the idea of having my wood storage under the oven opening, so I designed the foundation with two lateral bays. Ended up making carts for the bays so I could have complete access to what I stored there...wood & baking/serving supplies. If you go to my foundation album (click on SableSprings at the top of this post, then View Public Profile, then Show All albums on the right side), I've got a few pictures of the block base for the bays and front span for you to look at.

At any rate, welcome to the fun!

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Hi Mike,
Thanks for that, I had actually come across and looked at your great build with interest before and had contemplated a different design, I dont particulary need a wood storage underneath either as I have 16cubic metres of wood stored in the adjoining barn area which we use for our heating through winter.

I am having to wait another week anyhow for my blocks, so nothings written in stone yet my friend.

Thanks for the input
Paul

[Bacterium]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Mike,
carts...that's a great idea which I'm hoping to borrow for my current build...

Paul,
any plans for an imperial eagle somewhere in your design.......or are you more of a lynx man

[nissanneill]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Paul,

I know you will have a good answer for this one Neill, so, why did you not make the sides equal ?

Your footing dimensions are 140 x 140cm, so that is 3 1/2 bricks long on each side. I simply removed 1 brick from each side but you can always make each side equal by incorporating a half brick on the longer edge. To maintain your bond on the second and 4th row, that will be necessary, it is really up to you.

What would be the minimum depth of hearth you would reccomend?

You will need at least 4" (100mm) reinforced concrete and if you plan on using insulation board, then a double layer to 50mm should suffice. If using vermiculite, 100mm would be the minimum that I would use but thicker will give you better heat retention. The actual hearth, well that needs to be a full brick on flat as minimum especially for pizzas. Some people adopt a double layer of 2" fired clay pavers even for commercial ovens (see Russel Jeavons book) as the top layercan easily be replaced of worn or damaged.

On the diagram Neil what did you allow us for the dome insulation to take us up to the edge of the blocks.

Again, this depends on what insulation you decide to use, 50 - 75mm of superwool is recommended (as I have in mine), together with 50 -75mm vermiculite cement. There is plenty of room to have 'adequate insulation', but the thicker it is, then you may need to reduce your flue/chimney transition to 1 1/2 bricks rather that the 2 as shown. There is another alternative (which if needed, i would adopt) is to cantellever the front by a little to keep that transition to a good effective size.

Cheers.

Neill

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Righto Neill,

For cost wise it would have been perlite mix, BUT, albeit not made of money,I'm going to shell out and get 3" of ceramic board for underneath the dome and because I may have to order from the UK I will get 3" ceramic insulation for the dome outer too,
This would assist in the comfortable working height and maximise internal diameter.
Some suppliers sell by the metre x1" depth. Not yet sourced a supplier in Bulgaria.
If I chose this method, I was thinking of ordering 7 meters, would this be enough? If not how much to order.

I wouldnt want to cantilever Neill because I may adopt Bacteriums monolithic pour for a straight on edge, but, theres always a but, although I'm winging this design as I go along Im pleased to comtemplate any ideas that crop up.

Im no builder, ( oh youve already guessed that!) This undertaking is a major construction for me, even 'ole King Solemon himself would have been proud to undertake I'm sure.
Its surprising how much the initial concrete slab/footing would effect the rest of the build, ie size, positioning height etc. Including the mention of the chimney flue transition.
So Not having really thouht this far, what would the difference make between 2 bricks entrance to 1 1/2 bricks entrance( oK 1/2 a brick) No what I mean is, does it make any difference to the draught or diameter of the chimney to work properly.?
Cheers
Paul

As for the incorparation of an Imperial eagle or am I lynx man, I dont know as to what you imply Damon, but lynx man sounds like something I can ill afford

It may be my epitaph!!

[Bacterium]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Paul, just reffering to some of the animals that live in your part of the world.

I get wedge tail eagles gliding in the skies near my joint, rare but great to watch.

[nissanneill]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

Paul,

I was thinking of ordering 7 meters, would this be enough? If not how much to order.

The amount you need will be dependent on the width of the material. I used a product sold to me specifically for insulating ovens which was 600mm wide. I bought a roll I think was 8 metres and 25mm thick and I have a little over a metre left. With your planned 32" oven the outer circumference would be 3.2 metres less your entrance, you will need to put cuts vertically into it so that the top surface can be laid flat on the dome without large bulges, even cut out triangular shapes, even these offcuts can be pulled apart and used to increase the amount of insulation and hence heat retention. 7 metres would just cover the dome twice, giving 50mm thickness which would barely be enough but all vermiculite cement and that will improve it considerably.

what would the difference make between 2 bricks entrance to 1 1/2 bricks entrance( oK 1/2 a brick) No what I mean is, does it make any difference to the draught or diameter of the chimney to work properly.?

With a 2 brick transition, assuming that you will need 1/2 brick for your front arch only leaving you a 11/2 brick transition depth. Id however, you only have a 1 1/2 brick transition, losing that 1/2 brick for your front arch, only leaves one brick or 33% less for your smoke to get directed into your chimney/flue. With that said, a shorter transition will make it easier to reach and reach further into your oven. Always pro's and con's to consider!
As far as your chimney is concerned, I would prefer an 8" (200mm) one over a 6" (150mm) one. They will both draw OK but volume will reduce the likelihood of smoke exiting and staining your front arch.


Neill

[yorkshireknight]

Re: Corner Build Help Needed

As always Neill, very well described,

I will possibly order more than 7m, rather than start with perlite mix, but I now know I do at least have an option for this.

Without getting too far in front of myself I will wait until my hearth is down and Ive dry laid the bottom row bricks and then make a decision on the depth of entrance, but very interesting information buddy.

Forgive my ignorance Damon, we've been here 2 years and love to see the different wildlife thats about us compared to the UK Im not very good at recognising and naming the species though we just point and say 'ooh look aint that a beautiful coloured bird' and Everything that has a big wingspan is an eagle to me.

Looks like you and Neill are neighbours from down under It must be a great part of the world to live. An old mate of mine from my youth left for those shores to become a proffesional footballer, understand he did well, Dave Kamasz was the name dont know which part he moved to though.

Once again thanks for the assistance.
Paul