Extreme Insulation Need Advice

[gugahulk]

Hi, I need advice from anyone with experience... :-)

I want my oven to stay hot for a week, is that even possible? I am planning everything out for my build and I need extreme insulation as I want to be able to cook with a single fire for the longest time possible.

Need Advice from the Masters!
Meaning by anyone as its my first time building an oven!

[DavidApp]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Hello

No Master here just an Apprentice.

Someone on the site was looking at using this product. I know it is a UK company but it may be available here in the US.

David

Kiln Linings, Best Site for Kiln Maintainance and Repair Materials

[DavidApp]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Hello

It is the WDS ULTRA insulation.

David

[gugahulk]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Hello

It is the WDS ULTRA insulation.

David

Thanks DavidApp, I will look into it.

[oblertone]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

In a former life I worked in a plant producing wire and ropes in steel, part of the plant used loose Vermiculite spread over molten metal (zinc) for heat retention; using a four inch layer you could 'bounce' the zinc using your bare hand ! Enclose your dome and fill the cavity with vermiculite is about the best you can get; as to keeping cooking heat for a week, you'll have to come back and tell us.

[gugahulk]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

In a former life I worked in a plant producing wire and ropes in steel, part of the plant used loose Vermiculite spread over molten metal (zinc) for heat retention; using a four inch layer you could 'bounce' the zinc using your bare hand ! Enclose your dome and fill the cavity with vermiculite is about the best you can get; as to keeping cooking heat for a week, you'll have to come back and tell us.

Oblertone, this is very interesting.... I will keep this in mind for my plans. Thanks for the input.

[Tscarborough]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Lots of insulation under the base and loose fill over the top and a good insulating door. You can cook pizza day one, bread day two, meat/veges day three, and then use it to either dry food or dry wood for another day or 2. Note that the more mass you put in the oven to cook, the faster it will cool. This is also presuming you heat soak the oven, and that is not going to happen with an hour and a half burn, more like a 4 or 5 hour fire.

[gugahulk]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Lots of insulation under the base and loose fill over the top and a good insulating door. You can cook pizza day one, bread day two, meat/veges day three, and then use it to either dry food or dry wood for another day or 2. Note that the more mass you put in the oven to cook, the faster it will cool. This is also presuming you heat soak the oven, and that is not going to happen with an hour and a half burn, more like a 4 or 5 hour fire.

Thanks Tscarborough, This is what I plan in mind exactly. Right now my play will be 2, 2 inch think insulating board from forno bravo on the bottom of the oven. and 4 insulating blankets on top. The oven floor will be in 2.25 inch fire brick and the walls and dome will be 4 inches think. My wish is to heat up the oven less than 1hour and keep the heat as you described above. My oven will be a barrel shape 32 inches by 27 inches of cooking space. Dont want it big so heats up quickly.

Here is Miami the wood is extremely expensive, basically $25 for 10 small oak logs. Can I use charcoal to heat up the oven than burn wood to keep it going? Or use wood only?

Thanks again

[Tscarborough]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

If you burn for an hour, you will not even be able to cook Neapolitan pizza, and only 2 or 3 NY style before the heat is sucked from the face of the brick into the mass. Long firing is key. The oven mass has to be saturated.

Charcoal does not work well, my advice is to buy a half cord of wood at a time. You still don't burn a lot of wood, but you need the extended time to fire, as the heat will only move through the brick at a certain pace and there is no way around that limitation.

My oven is a small barrel, insulated as I told you, and my results are as stated, but only with an extended burn time. I burn less than the wood storage under my oven, about 10-15 wrist sized pieces, and 2 big ones used as andirons (about 3 CuFt of wood).

[gugahulk]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

If you burn for an hour, you will not even be able to cook Neapolitan pizza, and only 2 or 3 NY style before the heat is sucked from the face of the brick into the mass. Long firing is key. The oven mass has to be saturated.

Charcoal does not work well, my advice is to buy a half cord of wood at a time. You still don't burn a lot of wood, but you need the extended time to fire, as the heat will only move through the brick at a certain pace and there is no way around that limitation.

My oven is a small barrel, insulated as I told you, and my results are as stated, but only with an extended burn time. I burn less than the wood storage under my oven, about 10-15 wrist sized pieces, and 2 big ones used as andirons (about 3 CuFt of wood).

Wow I must first say your oven is beautiful. You did an amazing job.

I for sure want Neapolitan pizza so I guess I will have to deal with the $$$ issue. I see some gas and oven combos should I be considering this as over time wood here is impossible to find and $$$ Does it give a terrible taste to the pizza? also the gas burner is $1200 OUCH. that hurts the pockets and the heart just to think about it. Also think that I will be cheating if I use a burner and want my oven to be authentic wood oven. Any Thoughts on this? Don't want to break the bank.

[DavidApp]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Hello

Almost worth a trip to Georgia for a load of wood. There may be local wood suppliers in the Miami area who deal in larger amounts than the big box store bundles.
I am lucky to get the best wood. Free wood.

As to the Gas option. I have seen restaurants with gas burners and the Pizza tasted fine BUT you would need the professionally manufactured burner system with flame detection etc.
Without all the safety gear you run the risk of building a dangerous oven.

David

[gugahulk]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Hello

Almost worth a trip to Georgia for a load of wood. There may be local wood suppliers in the Miami area who deal in larger amounts than the big box store bundles.
I am lucky to get the best wood. Free wood.

As to the Gas option. I have seen restaurants with gas burners and the Pizza tasted fine BUT you would need the professionally manufactured burner system with flame detection etc.
Without all the safety gear you run the risk of building a dangerous oven.

David

You mean I will be building a BOOM... I have kids want to live a long life, DONT WANT TO DIE...

I wish I had FREE WOOD. Tried to look for wood supplier all over, since its a hot climate here in Miami no one has it. I only know one wood oven pizzaria in miami and they use charcoal not real wood.

[oblertone]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

One solution maybe to use scrap wood to get your oven up to temp, then a little of the expensive stuff to cook on. The oven will reach 500c so any unpleasantness is long gone before you introduce food, have a look for raw pallets at the back of big box stores, just avoid any painted or dark brown ones.

ps - I know this won't be a popular suggestion !

[Tscarborough]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

Pallets are a bad idea unless you know how to read the treatment marks on them. Hot fire will not burn some of the things used. Burn heat treated pallets only. Use Google to learn the markings in your area.

[NCMan]

Re: Extreme Insulation Need Advice

You mean I will be building a BOOM... I have kids want to live a long life, DONT WANT TO DIE...

I wish I had FREE WOOD. Tried to look for wood supplier all over, since its a hot climate here in Miami no one has it. I only know one wood oven pizzaria in miami and they use charcoal not real wood.

I saw your post the other day and since I have relatives in South Miami/Cutler Ridge that have an outdoor fireplace, I asked them where they get their wood supply. I was told that they get it from the City. They also were going to get me a phone number of "a guy or two" that sell it. Will let you know if I get any more info. Best of luck to you.