Can I use shiners instead of runners for oven dome?

[josiahsanner]

I am still on the final designing phase of my WFO, and I am curious why I havn't seen any pizza oven domes with firebricks oriented with the 2 1/2 inch side in...
It seems that for a pizza oven this would be ideal. If I put a row of soldiers at the bottom, could I use shiners for the rest of the dome? It would likely exaggerate V creep if I don't bevel the bricks, but other than that I think the same dome structure concept should apply. Has anyone tried this?
I am wanting to do a 40-42 inch Pompeii style and thinking about a slightly lower dome height than a pure half sphere. Would use the IT for the bottom, and probably end up doing the top half with bracing or a mold. Any comments or suggestions would be helpful. There may be threads on this already that I couldn't find as well.
- Josiah

[mongota]

I hope I'm understanding your question:

Most do use a 2-1/2" exposure towards the inside of the dome, but with half- and third-bricks.

Doing a dome out of true shiners, with full bricks? Your dome would be 9" thick. And you're correct, if the bricks were tapered along their entire 9" length there would be a lot of waste. If the bricks were not tapered, there would be quite a bit of infill either with mortar, or with wedge-shaped offcuts from the firebrick. You could do a partial taper on the sides, just tapering the interior half of the brick, and use those offcuts as wedge infills on the exterior half to minimize mortar infill in those gaps.

The bigger issue with a 9" thick dome would be charging the dome with heat due to all that thermal mass. You'd have a long heating time. Good news, all that thermal mass would work wonders for extended cooking/baking sessions. But it'd put a damper on somewhat impromptu high-temp-required pizza parties.

Does that make sense?

[UtahBeehiver]

I am also uncertain about this orientation you have described. I attached a pic showing config and nomenclature of brick orientation. If you use a shiner as shown in the attached pic then the dome will be only 2.5: thick and it will be difficult to make the dome curvature especially as you move up in courses. Are we talking 1/2 rowlocks instead of shiners or full stretchers (full stretchers would also have the same issue making dome curvature). Also, how would you do a couple rows of soldiers?

[josiahsanner]

I am with you on cutting the bricks in 1/2 and 1/3... I was curious if a 2 1/2 inch thick dome was a possibility. Seems like it would heat up faster and use less brick.

[mongota]

Ah, when i read "shiners", to me that means bricks set on their long edge. When i read "with the 2-1/2" edge facing to the interior of the dome", i imagined a 9" thick dome. Misunderstanding on my part, the 2-1/2 inch edge facing towards the interior of the dome threw me off.

[josiahsanner]

Sorry for my confusing initial post. My question #4 still stands, however,...is a 2 1/2 inch thick fire-brick dome possible/reasonable.

[UtahBeehiver]

Some where in the forum, I recall somebody doing a either 1/2 or full shiners for their dome with beveling of the ends. You can do what ever you want, it is your build. A thinner wall will mean less thermal mass and although it may heat up quicker it will also cool down quicker and will limit the oven's ability to be used for extended day use. There were some comments from the members about the reduce strength of mortar joints due to the thinner dome thickness. In the scheme of things the cost deferential of using 1/2 header in relatively inexpensive. But in the end it is your choice.

[david s]

Cast ovens are generally around 2“ thick and usually have enough thermal mass for roasting and baking as well as pizza cooking. The problem brick builders have found when making such a thin dome is that there is not enough strength in the mortar joins when making it thin. (dmun who used 2” thick geodesic units is one who comes to mind). It has a tendency for the joins to fail. Because of the dome structure it shouldn’t collapse, but a lot of failing joints is not such a good thing.

[wotavidone]

Mine is 2 inch pavers cut in halves and stood on their edges.

https://community.fornobravo.com/for...039#post183039

https://community.fornobravo.com/for...527#post183527

I rendered over the top with about 1 inch of mortar reinforced with chicken wire.
It has no serious cracks, etc. But it's definitely a pizza oven, not a retained heat baking oven

I rendered it because I was concerned about stability. If you want a thinner dome, cut your standard 9 inch brick into thirds, and go for more like 3 inches thick.