Pizza Oven and Fireplace Enclosed Porch

[RiverRat]

Good morning. First, thank you for the wealth of knowledge you all share on this forum, and I am hoping you might be able to share a bit more directed to me. I am planning to have an uninsulated enclosed porch (approx 400 sqft) built this summer and want to have both a zero clearance fireplace (for ambiance and heat during cold temperatures) and a pizza oven included in the build. I believe I have decided on the Casa 100 since it can be used indoors. My question is this: can I combine the pizza oven and the zero clearance fireplace together, or should I keep them two separate units?

[UtahBeehiver]

It is difficult to determine what you mean by combining the build, a sketch would help. That said, if you mean placing the oven over the fireplace, we see this proposed here and there but rarely see anyone who has been successful with this. Issues are how to combine the chimney venting, not being able to use oven when fire place is running due to heat from fire place makes it difficult to stand in front of the oven to cook. SableSprings (aka Mike) did a nice build in a porch addition. Look at his thread

[RiverRat]

I figured that combining the venting would be an issue. Thank you for confirming. I believe I will keep my current plan where the fireplace is in the SE corner and the brick oven is centered on the north wall. Thank you for your feedback.

[Gulf]

Hi RiverRat,

Welcome to the forum. I agree with Russell and like your final decision on placing the fireplace some distance from the oven. My oven was completed first and guests would gravitate to where I was working. Now, the fireplace keeps most everyone's attention and they stay out of my way while I am working the oven .

[JRPizza]

We have an outdoor fire pit, but whenever the Wife suggests having a fire I always think of what a waste of wood it would be to burn without heating the oven.

[SableSprings]

RiverRat (Welcome), a couple of other things to consider. Wood storage and path for ash removal are important issues here. You don't want to be fiddling bringing in wood during a party, nor do you want to have to wander around with a bucket of ash... Be aware that a clear and defined path between the kitchen and the oven is important.

Even in Oregon, the wind can bite/sting (much like the mosquitoes & yellow jackets). Think about enclosing your porch with screen and possibly adding some sort of wind block to extend the party season . I have had a lot of people come into our den while I'm working the oven and express surprise that the oven itself does not contribute much heat to the area. Definitely you get some radiant heat but it really only benefits those close to the oven opening (which can impede loading/unloading pizzas on a cold night). As others have noted above, the more you think about more tightly enclosing your porch and cooking area, the more you need to be conscious of venting and crowd control. Primarily, the oven is going to need a significant flow of air from the room to keep the fire bright (as does a fireplace)...try to avoid blocking off areas that force (cold) air through the crowd on its way to the fires ... and as Gulf noted, the fireplace will draw "them" pretty well after the oohs and aahs of the pizza oven. Think about making sure your work area and serving area (pizza landing zone) don't jam up the working corner.

FYI: I thought our enclosed Dragonfly Den would be plenty large enough, but now with a pizza oven and patio set in place...6-8 folks is the comfortable maximum for our party area. Do some space arrangement settings to make sure you won't be whacking anyone in the head with your peel while working the oven .

Looking forward to your build!

[david s]

Here's an interesting solution in an old villa in Penzano, Italy It has the advantage of doing away with the flue gallery to have to work past to get to the oven proper.

[RiverRat]

Thank you, everyone, for the warm welcome. I do not need to express to you my level of excitement for this project - it has been a dream of mine to have a brick oven for many years. Now that the project is finally doable, I spend many nights blissfully dreaming about the oven (is that a little odd?) I will not be building this project myself, rather I must contract out the work. I live in a very rural area and have not found anyone with brick oven experience, thus the reason I chose the Casa model. I want to learn as much as I can to avoid any mishaps along the way - that is why this site and your knowledge is priceless.

SableSprings - thank you for your tips and sharing your Dragonfly Den experience (looks amazing!!) I had not thought about the pathway with wood and hot coals, but I believe my current plan is conducive to such suggestions. How much square footage would you suggest for the cooking area?

I will try to attach a rough scaled sketch of my current plan, but I still have plenty of time for adjustments. Also, if I'm able to upload the image (which keeps giving me an error message at the moment), you'll note that I am planning to have a 6'x6' encasement for the oven that extends outside the patio area. This is to save enclosed square footage and also to create a brick wall where I can set my gas grill against. I plan to extend the roof over the encasement. This will all be new construction.

[UtahBeehiver]

Picture files are roughly limited in size to 1.25 - 1.5 mg and most cameras or phones take much larger resolution so you will need to reduce picture pixel size in order to attached. There are quite a number of builders whom have or had very little masonry experience, myself included, whom with time and patience able to build a WFOs so don't discount being able to build an oven. Go to the sticky thread located under the Newbie Section called Treasure Archives which shows some of the more documented WFO builds.

[RiverRat]

Thank you, UtahBeehiver, I resized so I think it will work now. And thank you for the vote of confidence!

[SableSprings]

Size of your outside entertainment area is so dependent on how large a group you plan to invite on a regular basis...and how much seating/counter top you intend to add...it's hard to say for sure what is "enough space". Our 250 sq ft of floor slab seemed huge initially, but with the enclosure, oven, carts, cook stove, cooling rack, and patio table (+6 chairs)...our space is pretty much filled to comfortable capacity. We have seated 12 folks in the den with folding chairs and lap tables...but it was tight.) That said, in looking at your entertainment area, it appears to have plenty of good party space as drawn. I'd suggest a little rearrangement however...the feeding station/bar - right behind the oven opening is too close. You need to be able to clear the front edge of the landing with your peel (going in or out). My peel is 60" long and I would recommend at least 6' between the physical front of the oven and any structure (table/bar/etc.). When I take bread or pizza out of the oven, I step back after my peel has cleared the front and then swing over to my serving cart top...so that 6' radius around the oven front is always "dangerous to by-standers"

Rule of thumb in kitchens is too provide at least 5' between counters as an aisle (and you seldom have a 5' peel in a kitchen ). Be aware that when thinking about placing a main dining table in your open area that you need to provide space for people to pull chairs out and to easily move behind occupied chairs.

The main reason I put in an ash dump/slot at the front of my oven is so I would not have to deal with any ash issues during or immediately after a bake. I actually only have to empty my ash bin after every 4-6 firings. I also like that because it's in a closed bin, the coals are always cold when I empty it into my compost heap.

Hope that helps.

p.s. I didn't have any previous experience with brickwork either, but often friends or relatives do have that expertise and are willing to help get you started for a couple of adult beverages and promise of some pizza or WFO baked goods in the future. You can certainly do this from scratch, but the Casa 100 will get you serving pizza much quicker.

[RiverRat]

Excellent tips - thank you!!