36" Pompeii Corner Build Surrey,UK

[PeteH]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking about building an oven for a while, and after looking at design ideas on Pinterest, stumbled across Kens amazing 42" Kentucky Dome Build which thankfully led me to here to the Forno Bravo Universe!
I had no idea there'd be such a great community out there generously sharing their knowledge and skills, and I joined up immeadiately, downloaded the FB Oven Plans (many thanks James and all) and started reading the stickies and some of the many great threads I found on the site
Over the next week or 3, I 'll document my build so far and plans for future work. Please be critical so if need i can reverse engineer? anything I've messed up on, and alter any future plans which appear dodgy
I apologise now if I don't cite everyone's work whom I've borrowed/stole ideas from as I doubt anything I add to the forum will be original!

Pete

[JRPizza]

Pete, since you still might have time to fine tune your design, I found the thread below to be helpful when I was planning my build.

https://community.fornobravo.com/for...change?t=12453

[PeteH]

Hi JR
thanks for your response
What a great thread, came across it when searching the forum threads, and have taken some of it on board (as mentioned it should be a “sticky”!)
Decided to increase the oven size to 36” from originally 32” and add extra insulation both under the oven (5” vermicrete + 2” ceramic board) and over the dome add over the recommended amount of blanket, not decided on whether to vermicrete and render or hour and use loose vermiculite as yet, a number of the posts I’ve read have wished to add
extra
Am taking it slow now cutting a few bricks and am planning a few experiments with hydraulic lime, hoping to use it in place is Portland cement and hydrated lime in the build I’ll post the results we hen I get them,
Also plan to use ss sheet under chimney arch and angle iton at the oven entrance-to protect the bricks which I’m already chipping!
Had decided against using clay pavers for the build though (have 300) as although they’d probably be ok the risk of them failing with all the work involved changed my mind
I’ll add some more on my build so far over the next week
Regards
Pete

[MarkJerling]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking about building an oven for a while, and after looking at design ideas on Pinterest, stumbled across Kens amazing 42" Kentucky Dome Build which thankfully led me to here to the Forno Bravo Universe!
I had no idea there'd be such a great community out there generously sharing their knowledge and skills, and I joined up immeadiately, downloaded the FB Oven Plans (many thanks James and all) and started reading the stickies and some of the many great threads I found on the site
Over the next week or 3, I 'll document my build so far and plans for future work. Please be critical so if need i can reverse engineer? anything I've messed up on, and alter any future plans which appear dodgy
I apologise now if I don't cite everyone's work whom I've borrowed/stole ideas from as I doubt anything I add to the forum will be original!

Pete

Welcome to the forum!

[PeteH]

Thanks Mark

It was great to suddenly find this forum
Just read your post, nice oven, like your central chimney & flue passing over dome I’ve not seen that before on my searches
It’s my first oven so intend to keep it simple this time, although a number of friends seem keen on starting their own builds and will probably rope me in as I’ve got tools
Your Pizzas look amazing, been a while since I’ve had a real oven fired Pizza, we’re still in lockdown here and hopefully restaurants will be opening soon
Loved your drawings too, I take it you’re an architect/ designer?
My drawings are pencil and graph paper, and a worn down eraser! I had a look at Sketchups free download and decided would probably spend more time on design than actual building Old dogs...
Nice to be welcomed will try and update a bit of on my build progress later

Pete

[david s]

I can't say I'm a fan of corner builds. but my criticism is based on the build problems rather than cooking with them. If the oven is tucked in a corner and built as an igloo, then the side walls are in the way and make insulating and finishing render quite difficult. In addition you end up with a space behind the oven which is difficult to access and use for anything purposeful. Both of these problems are circumvented if the corner walls are used as the two sides of an enclosure build. another successful method is to build the oven quite close to the walls and fill the space with vermicrete so the oven render comes out as part of the wall. See pic.

[PeteH]

Hi Dave
I bet that build was awkward to work on, my back aches just thinking about it!
This shouldn’t be an issue with me as have free access around oven, corners will be annoying and I guess using a octagonal/circular shape for stand/support would of been easiest to work with
My main problem is unequal slopes around oven but I’ll rig up a low level raised platform using block and scaffold boards), I'm not the tallest fella at 5’10” so this will help when the build gains height
Decided on a corner build as fitted well my “Master plan” (outdoor kitchen) - it’s just been approved by my wife, as She’s enjoying the peace with me be out of the house
Pete

Thanks again for your advice on vermicrete slab, it dried solid, weep holes will allow excess moisture out later

[SableSprings]

Welcome to the forum community Pete. As David noted above, corner builds can be literally a pain in some ways during a build. That said, I'm extremely happy with my corner build & it's served me very well for many years. Do be aware that having a larger prep area for getting a pizza or breads ready to go into & for cooling/cutting after coming out of the oven is very useful. Also when using a long peel to load/unload the oven, having more room behind you is important... I came close to whacking some of my guests seated at the table when I pulled my first pizzas out & took a step back to clear the entry. Note in my build I chose a wood storage cart off to the side instead of under the wfo opening... it's a bit of a pain to try & reach wood that's a couple feet back underneath your working area (imho ).

Lots of options & advice available here as you have seen. Definitely the best advice is too spend extra time planning not only the build, but how you plan to "work" the oven for parties etc. You might ask around to see if you can borrow one of those portable tent stands to put over your build...as you know, it will rain at the most inconvenient times.
Looking forward to your build!

[PeteH]

Hi Mike
thanks for the welcome
I put up a 3m gazebo after i poured my base slab as started in early January and I’ve been able to get out all weathers and rigged up a couple of halogens hanging from the frame has been handy in these shorter winter days
Wood compartments to right and back of oven smallish but plan to have larger covered storage area nearby
Will take into account using the peel would be similar to playing pool in a small pub at a more dangerous height, and luckily my wife’s a nurse! I’ve extended my patio areas considerably already but can go further if need be Gazebo an unwanted purchase gifted to me, just as well I’ve given up keeping a budget for the build
Dusting of snow this year couple of days after poured hearth support!

Pete

[PeteH]

So the build so far...please feel free to skip to piccies

Spent a good while deciding on size and orientation of oven, initially thought 32" would be adequate for my needs but on the rare occasion when we have big parties an extra 200in2 cooking hearth space might come in handy, corner orientation more suited to our patio space and my outdoor kitchen plan
Drew up some plans for oven
Oven slab would be situated 2m from boundary (1m from beech hedge) which would allow me enough access to build and prune hedge, it would be cut into the existing patio slab any a couple of feet
Lifted a few slabs and dug out area 10" deep for foundations ( +some extra for future work), infilled with 5-6" limestone scalpings(MOT type 1) and compacted to submission using hired plate compacter
Made 60"x 60" form (stand size +2" extra around) with 1"x 6" boards modified slightly with a couple of short board lengths to produce a unequilateral? hexagon (square with 2 corners chopped off) allowing a short entry to oven and also give access at back of oven for cutting hedge without a big corner of concrete being in the way
This form would be used later for hearth support slab and give a 2" overhang of the stand
Levelled sublease with sharp sand placed, squared, levelled and secured form in place (using rebar around and concrete blocks)
Cut and tied 1/2' rebar at 8" intervals supported by engineer bricks (removed during pour)
Mixed ballast and cement (6:1) and poured, tamped and levelled slab
Left to cure for a couple of weeks
time slows down when you're waiting for concrete to cure in January

[PeteH]

The Stand...

Decided on a slightly different stand than FB plans, after seeing differing shapes on the forum possible
i wanted 4 separate compartments so I looked at using a modified Greek cross which unfortunately ended up looking more like a swastika - a symbol of the bronze age used by numerous cultures since - adopted and misused by the nazis as a symbol of power - before meaning peace in Buddhism, and good luck, fertility and regeneration in other cultures
personally I like its meaning as the 4 forces of nature which is very apt for its use in a WFO
Back to the build...
Dry stacked hollow blocks (16x8x8") cutting where necessary using a 9" grinder to a height of 4 blocks (32") this with the support slab insulation depth and hearth brick depth a working height of 42" above the existing patio (44" above foundation concrete) and elbow height for me (5'10") My wife is 5'6" so when she's cooking I'd get her a box to stand on, or tell her when the pizzas done one for Lord of the Rings movie fans- Legolas and Gimli
Cut rebar lengths to fit in every other hole and filled them with concrete, let concrete harden for a few days, cut off excess rebar (shape of the stand spread top load evenlyish so I decided against tying slab to stand)
Reassembled base formwork with 2x2" batten fixed around inner bottom edge to fill the gap between form and oven slab
Propped form with 2x4s cut to size, so 4" to the 6" form protruded above the stand and strapped props to stand using 3 tension straps, lastly fixed form to props with L brackets (overkill?!)
Instead of using ply and props to bridge the gap between the walls of the stand I used lengths of rebar notched into concrete blocks, DPC over stand blockwork and 3/8" concrete board over the whole structure
Remembered to lose as much of the concrete offcuts down the open holes before covering them with the board
Cut and tied rebar for top slab (wish i had used a couple of pieces more now) and rigged up a precarious stand at the right height using blocks, a pallets and board off cuts and assemble mixer on stand (son chipped in)
Started mixing concrete, and with luck the mixer stand and formwork held up
Removed formwork a couple of days later after scratching lines around a centre point to guide me later
Drilled 8 weep holes to allow any excess moisture out from the vermicrete insulation layer when oven is built and being firecured

[david s]

Hi Dave
I bet that build was awkward to work on, my back aches just thinking about it!
This shouldn’t be an issue with me as have free access around oven, corners will be annoying and I guess using a octagonal/circular shape for stand/support would of been easiest to work with
My main problem is unequal slopes around oven but I’ll rig up a low level raised platform using block and scaffold boards), I'm not the tallest fella at 5’10” so this will help when the build gains height
Decided on a corner build as fitted well my “Master plan” (outdoor kitchen) - it’s just been approved by my wife, as She’s enjoying the peace with me be out of the house
Pete

Thanks again for your advice on vermicrete slab, it dried solid, weep holes will allow excess moisture out later

No that one was easy. I've done much more difficult ones than that. It is hard to see from the pic, but the space on both sides and the back is filled with vermicrete to about the level of the top of the arch, which meant the render only has to go around the oven at that height. Look carefully at the pic on the left side.

[PeteH]

Hi David

I can see that now, makes sense, extra insulation in the unusable space
I’m taking forum members advice and insulating well -
5”vermicrete +2”ceramic board below oven and similarly for the dome I have bought enough ceramic fibre for a 4”layer
And with an extra 2” of split brick cladding around the oven stand edge this will hopefully give me a diameter of 64” to work with
If I decide to go with Igloo — Oven external diameter 45” + 8”fibre + 6”vermicrete +3”render(stucco) = 62 “ gives me 2” wiggle room
I will monitor widths as I progress through the stages and change accordingly if need be
Still unsure on igloo or enclosure, as both have their merits and I have a good while to decide the rate I’m working at!
The kitchen will probably have roof structure open at the sides to the elements so both stylesfeasible
Probably will vermicrete,then lime render an igloo shape first as I can always change to enclosure after


Pete

[PeteH]

Started laying bricks today so thought I should try and catch up to present documenting my thread! feel free to skip to pics as next page is incredibly boring and only repeating what has been done ad infinitum

Temperature dropped to below freezing soon after pouring the top slab, so I rigged up a couple of electric heaters in the areas underneath to raise surrounding temperature, managing to fuse the extension lead to plug to the socket! Did I get in trouble I blamed the dodgy electrics in the conservatory - a spur off the mains circuit ? but as have limited electrics experience (can change a plug) a wild guess.
Changed plug, replaced double socket too (as was shared by the beer fridge) and plugged extension into mains circuit in kitchen

Week or two later started work on under oven hearth insulation, my plan was to build a dinky circular retaining wall using 2 courses of 2" clay paver (3rds i.e cut in3) for the 5" of vermicrete: a course of pavers (3rds) for the slab perimeter (to be filled with screed/concrete) and to lay a couple of courses for the Vent/chimney area
Cutting bricks-
Have been looking at trying to get a wet tile saw which would be able to cut 2.5" depth but nothing available in the UK except brick saws, which are out of my price range.
So I grabbed my Ryobi mitre saw hiding in the shed and changed the blade to a tile cutting blade and purchased a decent filter mask (expected a little dust)
Cut the pavers 9"x4.5"x2" into 3rds, using Henry the hoover to try and suck up the worst of the dust - hose in one hand, cutting with other (paver clamped)
Saw worked a treat, no effort getting through the pavers (prewetted) and not too dusty thanks to Henry!


Making vermicrete was fun, had used vermiculite before when I worked as a gardener in a potting mix to add drainage/lighten compost, and I didn't realise its main use was for insulation
Followed FB guidelines but used a 6:1 ratio (better k value) of vermiculite (medium grade mycafil) moistened : cement, mixed thoroughly in a barrel (30L batches) then slowly adding 30% water by volume, f urther hand mixing, felt a bit like making a giant cake. Shovelled mix into brick basin and roughly levelled. Typically came up an inch short (thanks TP delivery driver for spilling half of the second bag in your lorry!)
Nice dusting of snow over the next day, so set up an Amazon cardboard hot house to raise the temp to early summer temperatures above the slab to help it dry a little before continuing build (thanks david s for your reassurance at this point)
Decided to top vermicrete layer unto the 5" mark using a mix of medium and fine grade vermiculite
Cut the floor bricks whilst waiting for deliveries, used 3" thick medium duty Vitcas bricks laid in a herringbone pattern ensuring dead centre of dome area was laid over a full brick so I could replace it with 2.5" brick + pivot plate so whilst building the dome and with my IT the pivot height is close to hearth height
Put hearth bricks aside, levelled vermicrete layer with mix, dried for another couple of days and cut and glued 2"ceramic board to fit under oven floor giving an inch/two later to attach first layers of ceramic blanket when at the dome insulation stage. Managed to use single 1m x1.2m board as pricey material!

[PeteH]