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Re: Barrel Vault in So. Cal.
I have seen dozens of posts on this site and others that indicate to me that water HAS gotten into stucco covered ovens. Do a search for something like "oven not getting hot" and check yourself. Lots of guys have posted that their oven used to work perfectly and now seems to not be getting as hot as it used to. In those threads there is generally a consensus that "the insulation must be wet".
And let's be honest...unless you are putting a humidity meter/probe into the interior of your oven enclosure/insulation, neither you nor anyone else has any idea to what degree you are dealing with water intrusion. Obviously, if the oven appears (on casual observation) to be working fine, then there is not a huge problem. But it is certainly possible that you could be suffering from a ten to fifteen percent deficency in heating ability/retention and never notice it unless you are graphing time/temp curves.
Aside from that, my common sense tells me that water is likely to intrude due to the physics of the building materials. Ovens, by their nature, are composed of masonry which goes through repeated, rather extreme, heating/cooling cycles. Since masonry (stucco included) doesn't flex very well, that tells me cracking is likely. Secondly, I'm a piss-poor mason. It is hardly surprising to me that something I built might be something less than pristinely water-proof.
Finally, the way in which ovens are constructed makes them vulnerable to water intrusion. (unless they have a a full roofed enclosure...which I didn't want). My oven is sitting on top of a flat concrete slab with three inches of ceramic board insulation (i.e. a sponge) resting on top of the slab. To make matters worse, my entire oven is surrounded by three to four inches of ceramic fiberboard oriented vertically along the sidewalls and rear wall...also contacting the slab (more sponges).
With all of that in mind I'd be very surprised if water wouldn't intrude at some point, to some degree. And neither I nor anyone else would ever know it unless things got so bad that it became obvious when used.
Your example about the village oven used by the baker is apples and oranges. The baker's village oven NEVER cools down. If an oven is four hundred degrees F, it can rain until the cows come home and water will never be a problem. If I used my oven every day it would never drop below four hundred dgrees. Water would never be an issue. But I don't use my oven every day.
So why not put in a ten dollar vent? You say (without any support for the claim) that the law of probabilities dictate that water is more likely to get into a properly hooded vent than through stucco cracks or lateral migration along the slab...ok fine. I disagree. I'm guessing that you honestly don't know what the laws of probabilty dictate in this regard unless you have conducted experiments on vented and non-vented ovens and measured humidity levels. That being said, I haven't conducted experiments either. But I have seen a million attics, pool equipment sheds, cable utility boxes, etc. which all had vents built into them. Since the laws of probabilities tell me that utility companies and pool companies know what they are doing in keeping moisture out of their equipment, I choose to emulate that. But as they say, different strokes for differnet folks.
Interesting talk. (And please understand that I am not one of those guys who gets pissed off when I run into someone who disagrees with my take on something. Thanks for your input on this...and I don't say this to indicate that the discussion is over...I don't need the last word. If you have something else to add or some observations to support your claims, I'm all ears.)
Gotta go to bed. Getting late here.
Bill
I have seen dozens of posts on this site and others that indicate to me that water HAS gotten into stucco covered ovens. Do a search for something like "oven not getting hot" and check yourself. Lots of guys have posted that their oven used to work perfectly and now seems to not be getting as hot as it used to. In those threads there is generally a consensus that "the insulation must be wet".
And let's be honest...unless you are putting a humidity meter/probe into the interior of your oven enclosure/insulation, neither you nor anyone else has any idea to what degree you are dealing with water intrusion. Obviously, if the oven appears (on casual observation) to be working fine, then there is not a huge problem. But it is certainly possible that you could be suffering from a ten to fifteen percent deficency in heating ability/retention and never notice it unless you are graphing time/temp curves.
Aside from that, my common sense tells me that water is likely to intrude due to the physics of the building materials. Ovens, by their nature, are composed of masonry which goes through repeated, rather extreme, heating/cooling cycles. Since masonry (stucco included) doesn't flex very well, that tells me cracking is likely. Secondly, I'm a piss-poor mason. It is hardly surprising to me that something I built might be something less than pristinely water-proof.
Finally, the way in which ovens are constructed makes them vulnerable to water intrusion. (unless they have a a full roofed enclosure...which I didn't want). My oven is sitting on top of a flat concrete slab with three inches of ceramic board insulation (i.e. a sponge) resting on top of the slab. To make matters worse, my entire oven is surrounded by three to four inches of ceramic fiberboard oriented vertically along the sidewalls and rear wall...also contacting the slab (more sponges).
With all of that in mind I'd be very surprised if water wouldn't intrude at some point, to some degree. And neither I nor anyone else would ever know it unless things got so bad that it became obvious when used.
Your example about the village oven used by the baker is apples and oranges. The baker's village oven NEVER cools down. If an oven is four hundred degrees F, it can rain until the cows come home and water will never be a problem. If I used my oven every day it would never drop below four hundred dgrees. Water would never be an issue. But I don't use my oven every day.
So why not put in a ten dollar vent? You say (without any support for the claim) that the law of probabilities dictate that water is more likely to get into a properly hooded vent than through stucco cracks or lateral migration along the slab...ok fine. I disagree. I'm guessing that you honestly don't know what the laws of probabilty dictate in this regard unless you have conducted experiments on vented and non-vented ovens and measured humidity levels. That being said, I haven't conducted experiments either. But I have seen a million attics, pool equipment sheds, cable utility boxes, etc. which all had vents built into them. Since the laws of probabilities tell me that utility companies and pool companies know what they are doing in keeping moisture out of their equipment, I choose to emulate that. But as they say, different strokes for differnet folks.
Interesting talk. (And please understand that I am not one of those guys who gets pissed off when I run into someone who disagrees with my take on something. Thanks for your input on this...and I don't say this to indicate that the discussion is over...I don't need the last word. If you have something else to add or some observations to support your claims, I'm all ears.)
Gotta go to bed. Getting late here.
Bill
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