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2 meter diameter New build oven with pumice reinforced with Basalt Rebar

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  • #31
    This comes question comes up here and there periodically. To my knowledge, no one has found anything that will work inside the oven due to temperature and sooting issues.. Many have used light sources just on the outside shining in though.
    Russell
    Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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    • #32
      you don't really need a light in your oven. Flame works just fine
      My build progress
      My WFO Journal on Facebook
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      • #33
        Originally posted by deejayoh View Post
        you don't really need a light in your oven. Flame works just fine
        When firing and cooking in my oven I'm often reminded by the fire of how we use these ovens in exactly the same way as our ancestors did. An electric light, or thermocouples for that matter, tend to severe that link with history. The more you use your oven the less you rely on gadgets.

        That's probably the alcohol talking.
        Last edited by david s; 07-15-2017, 01:37 AM. Reason: thought of more w hen getting a fill up
        Kindled with zeal and fired with passion.

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        • #34
          The reason some of us have installed a BBQ light (flexible neck light mounted outside the oven) is that when you are cooking without flame (like baking bread), it can be literally impossible to see anything in the oven after sundown. The beauty of a long neck flexible light is that you can keep it out of the way when it's not needed. As David S noted above, you are often baking by smell, sight, & experience and that's a great experience. It also keeps you much more involved in the real conditions process of cooking instead of leaning totally on a "...I know it smells burnt, but the recipe says to bake for 35 minutes..." approach. I get the biggest kick out of someone bringing food over to be cooked in our oven and they have a recipe that says something like "...bake at 425F for 10 minutes and reduce to 375F for an additional 40 minutes". They ask what the temperature is in the oven and I tell 'em it's right at 500F and it's going to be that temp for a while, so let's put this on a reversed cookie sheet and watch/work the food until it looks & smells done...that ancestor cooking with fire stuff

          Back to the lighting--having both your hands free to poke the pork, work the peel, or turn the sheet pan is well worth having something "hands-free" available to illuminate the oven's interior. Having an assistant that holds the light and your adult beverage might even be better ...

          When I first started making bread, I had a baking session where I put my loaves into the oven at twilight. When I went to check on their progress a little while later, I had to return to the house for a flashlight because I could not see anything in the oven. Even though I had some soft lighting in the oven area so I didn't stumble around, the lights weren't oriented toward the opening or bright enough to illuminate inside the WFO. The next day I bought a battery powered, exterior BBQ light.

          Just some "be prepared" thoughts...
          Mike Stansbury - The Traveling Loafer
          Roseburg, Oregon

          FB Forum: The Dragonfly Den build thread
          Available only if you're logged in = FB Photo Albums-Select media tab on profile
          Blog: http://thetravelingloafer.blogspot.com/

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          • #35
            I have read in this forum various recommendations on the curing time for a lime mortar mixture of 3 sand : 1 Fire Clay; 1 Lime : 1 Portland cement. Some are with the idea of leaving 6-7 weeks for curing, others 2 weeks. I suppose the longer the better, however, what is the practical time for curing a dome with lime mortar?
            Thanks

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            • #36
              It all depends on how much water there is in your build, not only mortar but brick, insulation, etc. This where I see a lot of builders get impatient and crank up there ovens too high too fast only to ask why their oven cracked. You can still do some cooking during the curing stages. I recommend using briquettes during the initial stages of the cure, there heat is more easily controlled without flame spikes. You can BBQ yourself something at the same time. Slow is good.
              Russell
              Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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              • #37
                Originally posted by UtahBeehiver View Post
                It all depends on how much water there is in your build, not only mortar but brick, insulation, etc. This where I see a lot of builders get impatient and crank up there ovens too high too fast only to ask why their oven cracked. You can still do some cooking during the curing stages. I recommend using briquettes during the initial stages of the cure, there heat is more easily controlled without flame spikes. You can BBQ yourself something at the same time. Slow is good.
                What is the ideal curing time in your opinion?

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                • #38
                  I really can't answer that because each build is different with different variables, some take longer than others. All I can say is the more you fire, the more you get to know the oven. I learn something new each time I fire mine up. I can give you one nugget of advice that came from David S, if you see a lot of steam you are going too hot too fast. He advocates placing a tarp over you oven and if there is condensate forming then the oven is still wet.
                  Last edited by UtahBeehiver; 07-17-2017, 07:29 AM.
                  Russell
                  Google Photo Album [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JneXVXc3hVNHd3/]

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                  • #39
                    After 4 years of neighbours complaining to the local council, sabbotaging my electrical cable to my allotment and following a threat from one of my sad alcoholic neighbours, to have a fist fight! I have decided to stop reinventing the wheel, I have decided to listen to the wise voices of many here including Karangi Dude and david s .
                    I have decided to demolish the red brick soldier bricks and restart with the proper way by using firebricks.
                    I have created a moulding frame made of timber for the dome, made of the weathered timber that has been sitting in my garden exposed to the element for 4 years.
                    Please forgive the brick laying standard as I have never laid down a piece of brick.
                    My work is very messy and does not live up to the standards of the rest on this forum.

                    the internal diameter is now 192cm, The internal height of the dome is 75c

                    m.

                    The cost of a single fire brick in Surrey, UK is about 4 each + Shipping. I have purchased in access of 840 bricks.
                    The project is well over budget and over sized and running 4 years late! Now I have restarted and racing against the English weather. I could not put a gazebo as the neighbours are getting mad with me with numerous retired busy bosses around.
                    Last edited by Alomran; 09-14-2019, 05:27 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Unfortunately, I am using only the grinder as I couldn't bother to rent out a proper cutting machine sue to esceeding my budget. Hence the brick cutting looks a bit wonky!
                      Last edited by Alomran; 09-14-2019, 05:07 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Hopefully I will cement in the arch and publish more images tomorrow.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Alomran; 09-14-2019, 05:08 PM.

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                        • #42
                          I would like to consult the wise team at this gI have just managed to nearly complete the dome, on the following matters:

                          1- Is the chimney bay essential to be made of firebricks of the type that stores heat or is it possible to use the light weight vermiculite kiln bricks that is light in weight and thermally insolent, begging to point out the dome is made of 23cm thick firebricks dome thick? I am considering this option to reduce the weight on the suspended concrete platform carrying the arch bay.

                          2- Is the gap between the dome and the chimney bay only as a thermal break to prevent a thermal bridge? or is it for reducing the thermal expansion that may occur in the dome as well as in the chimney bay that may cause crack between the 2 structures?

                          3- Would using kiln bricks made of vermiculite be a good option to replace the insulation robe?

                          4- Is 2 layer of bubble aluminium thermal insolent added on top of the 1 inch ceramic blanket and a 10cm mix of pumice and vermiculite be enough to insulate this massive beast?

                          5- I have made a double arch to spread the immense weight of the weight of a 23cm thick dome wall on the entry arch, do you think this is an over kill? I just felt that in case there is a material failure, I don't wish to rebuild this oven!!

                          I would appreciate your advice on these matters. Thanks
                          Attached Files

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                          • #43
                            Sorry for the late reply.

                            In my opinion, soft insulated firebrick should be sealed from any compartment that food is cooked or passes thru during the cooking process.

                            The brick in the back of the entry, directly above the inner arch get extremely hot.

                            I would skip the bubble wrap and add some more refractory insulation. Either, another layer of ceramic fiber or a few more inches of the vermicrete type insulation.

                            Joe Watson " A year from now, you will wish that you had started today" My Build Album / My Build

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gulf View Post
                              Sorry for the late reply.
                              I would skip the bubble wrap and add some more refractory insulation. Either, another layer of ceramic fiber or a few more inches of the vermicrete type insulation.
                              Thank you for the great guidance, the reason I've considered using aluminium is due to the fact that for neighbourhood issues, I will not be able to build a canopy to protect the dome from the elements of the British weather, including the endless winter rain.So thought of the aluminium wrap as act as a water membrane against water going through the external cladding/tiles and through the vermiculite;ite insulation. Given the dome is over 7 meters in area, so for financial reasons only 1 inch ceramic blanket, what thickness of vermiculite/pumice should be added?

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                              • #45
                                I may have a different understanding of exacly what type of "bubble aluminium thermal insolent" that you are referring to. Aluminum melts @ around 700 degrees F. Im not sure that 1" of ceramic fiber is enough insulation to prevent that from happening at the apex of your dome. The type of insulation that I am famiiar with ( aluminum foil on both sides) has PVC plastic foam with air filled cells that will melt at an even much lower temperature. . The aluminum foil will also help keep moisture in, if there is no other means for it to escape. Some of us have installed vents for this.

                                Three inches of ceramic fiber blanket or the equivelant is the minimum recommended for the dome. I think that it takes twice the thicknesss of 10 to 1 vermicrete to be the equivelant. So, that would be at least another 4" of vermicrete. I hope that others will comment on the pumice. I have no idea what that adds or subtracts from insulating efficiency.

                                You really need to think again about covering this beast with roof to keep the water out imo.
                                Joe Watson " A year from now, you will wish that you had started today" My Build Album / My Build

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