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Christo's Cucina

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  • christo
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Started the Stucco or started coating the oven as I'm not sure surface bonding cement is really correct to call stucco.

    The stuff has alot of fiberglass in it and seems to go on well. They say it is stronger (wind load) than a standard masonry wall if coated properly. I got both of the wood storage areas underneath my oven coated today.

    I also put all the harborlite (perlite) in the oven and buttoned up the flat roof. I could not buy EPDM rubber membrane roofing so I bought a EPDM pond liner to use instead. In the picture you can see where I used roofing cement and fiber tape to bridge all gaps. (note - its not good for roofing cement to contact pond liner - I had to put down a thin sheet of plastic between the roofing cement and liner) Where the flue tile comes through the roof I used up the last scraps of the ceramic insulation board and made a 3 inch curb all around the flue. I will run the rubber pond liner up against the cermamic insulation and then put a copper flashing cap over it to do the final seal. The black caulk is high temp silicone fireplace caulk.

    Tomorrow starts the 2nd set of drying fires since the repairs!!!! Slow and low will be my motto for the next 6 days.

    Christo
    Last edited by christo; 09-19-2008, 09:26 AM.

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  • christo
    replied
    Front arch is complete

    Setbacks behind me, pressed on with the entry arch and the last of the refractory motar work. I used bricties screwed to the metal frame as well as bonded to the vent arch with refmix.

    I'm pretty happy with the arch. I have also put in lighting under the arch similar to Neils approach. I'll post pics of that after I'm sure it all works!!!

    Was cleaning out the mortar in the crack between the bricks and form about an hour after I had finished the arch - hard to not futz with it..... Kept worrying about how the inside of the arch looked with cement boogers hanging from it....

    I resisted all temptation to remove the form for an additional hour and pulled it out. Cleaned it up and tooled the remaining joints. Very happy today.

    I used refractory cement from little tubs to cover my remix tabs and then pretty much the last of the Refmix bag to cover the last of the cracked joints in the oven. The stuff is already hard. I willl spray it down once more and put the ceramic blanket back on this afternoon.

    Turns out a Perlite factory is less than 3 miles from my house. Monday will have me buying a couple bags of the most coarse stuff they have. Cheap too.

    Christo
    Last edited by christo; 08-14-2007, 01:19 PM.

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  • christo
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Hi Paul - a similar remote thermometer can be bought from Amazon dot com. The US site has one almost identical to the one I have.

    Christo

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  • Hendo
    replied
    Re: Dinner!!!!!

    Originally posted by christo View Post
    The picture shows the door with the temperature probe unit outside the the door (it sends temp readings about 50 ft to a unit inside the house!)
    Hey Chris,

    This setup looks great! Would you be able to post details of the unit, supplier and prices etc? There are some people here (and me) that would be interested.

    Cheers, Paul.

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  • maver
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Originally posted by christo View Post
    Time for the entry arch - A few questions come to mind.



    When installing the decorative arch, I understand it should be separate from the dome - how do people stablilze the arch when there is no surrounding brickwork? Would be acceptable to put brick ties in the joints of the arch while prebuilding and during installaion bend these and cement to the firebrick opening with refrax after installation of the arch?



    Thanks!!

    Christo
    I used brick ties attached to my oven (I used a rotary hammer and masonry anchors) and then built the arch with the brick ties in the joints, but I built it standing with a form and I also mortared the front arch to the vent - there is not a lot of heat in the vent area so I don't think a thermal break is needed. Maybe if you want to preassemble you could do the vertical sides and two top segments all separate, then attach the sides with brick ties at the corners and on either side of the keystone.

    I'm glad you are moving forward with a patch plan for the dome. I wonder how many ovens leak a little smoke once they are fully cured and insulated? Most of us have not done the dissection to find out.

    Marc

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  • wlively
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Christo

    I fully enclosed my entry, so I used a layer of cladding and screwed the durock to it so the arch isn't going anywhwere. But, early on I had considered leaving the first half of the entry exposed. My idea was to keep the arch as clean as possible, so my plan was to secure the base of the arch with "pins". I was going to drill small hole in floor and matching hole in base of first arch brick. Then cut a nail in half and mortar it and the brick in.

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  • christo
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Moving ahead. Thanks for all the suggestions and moral support. I think I will do a combination of the refmix layer and furnace cement. I wil use the refmix layer with foil to create a slip plane and use the furnace cement to cover all joints after the slip plane is created. I think it will all be good!!!

    Time for the entry arch - A few questions come to mind.

    I believe I will assemble on the ground vs. making forms and assmebling in place. Based on the picture attached - I think I may assemble the left and right sides and then put together later along with the keystone.

    I figure I should wait 4 days before attempting to pick up the arch and assemble in place. Is this being over conservative?

    I had the black granite shelf made at the local countertop place from scrap. they charged me their standard price for machining and polish the bull nose only. They also gave me a matching sink cutout that will be the mateiral for the keystone. (The keystone in the picture is a piece of paper spray painted black).

    When installing the decorative arch, I understand it should be separate from the dome - how do people stablilze the arch when there is no surrounding brickwork? Would be acceptable to put brick ties in the joints of the arch while prebuilding and during installaion bend these and cement to the firebrick opening with refrax after installation of the arch?



    Thanks!!

    Christo
    Last edited by christo; 06-22-2007, 10:46 AM.

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  • DrakeRemoray
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    First I say, Do not despair!

    My flue tiles did not crack (that was Fio), but I did have several cracks in my dome that were leaking smoke.

    I heated up the oven and applied furnace cement in the cracks. It seemed to do the trick.

    Ace - Rutland Fireplace Mortar

    Hope that helps!

    Drake

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  • jwnorris
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Originally posted by christo View Post
    <snip> If this is the mechanism that caused my oven to break - then coating the outside joints with heat resistant mortar should be a reasonable patch to keep the pieces in place once I put all the insulation back in place!!! <snip>
    Have very little scientific background but, being brave enough to throw an idea out, what if you coated the oven while still hot? Or at least warm. This would put the oven in the expansive state.

    J W

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  • christo
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Yes the cracks go all the way through and there was some smoke stain on the blanket.

    I believe the oven expands when heated - each brick according to the heat applied.

    This means that the oven expands slightly during and then contracts after each heating cycle. As I kept the outer side of the oven un-insulated during most of my drying fires - that means the differnece in heat expansion was quite different on the insde skin vs outside skin. Full insulation would have almost made that heat difference negligble during the slow heat ups that I used. No insulation means that inside was expanding while the outside tried to stay reasonably the same - result cracks..... AKA my fault vs. design concept.

    That is the mechanisim that I see - If this is the mechanism that caused my oven to break - then coating the outside joints with heat resistant mortar should be a reasonable patch to keep the pieces in place once I put all the insulation back in place!!!

    Any other ideas out there??? Thanks!!!

    Christo
    Last edited by christo; 06-19-2007, 05:58 AM.

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  • maver
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    OK, I'm sure I saw the contraction idea here about six months ago, but it makes no sense now that I consider it. I suppose someone might have been trying to convey that firebrick may expand less than other materials. Allow me to retract that idea.

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  • dmun
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Originally posted by maver View Post
    Chris, your description suggests that the bricks are contracting with heat, which if I recall correctly is the expected performance of firebrick when heated.
    I really don't think bricks shrink with heat. About the only thing that shrinks when it gets warmer is ice, and that's a special case. There are a few materials that have a very low expansion rate, like fused quartz and Invar, but they too, are special cases. Materials have different rates of thermal expansion, but the C/E of firebricks and refractory mortar should be closely matched. I wonder if it has something to do with the two kinds of refractory mortar used?

    I'm really confused about what's going on here, and concerned because I have a dog in this race, so to speak. Is the thin oven inherently unstable? It's the same thickness or more as the pre-fab ovens...

    I'm also a little embarrassed because I was the cheerleader for the geodesic oven. Hmmm.

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  • james
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Hey Chris,

    Thanks for posting that. I think it will be very helpful -- particularly to other folks considering doing your design.

    To Maver's point, if you simply coated the outside of the oven with a layer of RefMix (or whatever), that would hold the structure together and seal the oven, so that even if the individual brick pieces continue to expand and contract, that no heat or smoke could escape.

    What do you think?
    James

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  • maver
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Chris, your description suggests that the bricks are contracting with heat, which if I recall correctly is the expected performance of firebrick when heated. I'm not sure an outer buttress helps this (perlite mortar). Any evidence the cracks are allowing smoke to escape (smoke staining the thermal blanket)?

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  • christo
    replied
    Re: Christo's Cucina

    Well, the flue is not all that has cracked.

    I noticed during the last firing that I could see some hairline cracks around the hexes and pentagons. I was disapointed and attributed it to lighting drying fires without insulation. Upon cool down I could not see the cracks. Knowing that everything was a tapered fit, I was tempted to just leave the insulation on and proceed.

    I didn't. I removed the ceramic blanket and put it in the garage. What I fouind underneath was that each hex and pentagon had cracked around the periphery.

    When the oven heats up the brick face expands - I figure the inner was much hotter than the outer (with no insulation) and perhaps that's how I tweaked it.

    Instead of slathering more refrax over the dome, I decided to make a series of interlocking tabs (foil on one side of the joint to create a slip plane). I'm also mixing some perlite and mortar to apply around the bottom ring to keep it in place.

    I was tempted to keep my problem to myself - but you have all been such a great help. It would not be right to keep my failure to myself... I see it as a setback - We will get over it!!!

    Christo
    Last edited by christo; 06-18-2007, 07:51 PM.

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