Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

[das]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Note: FWIW, the medium and high duty bricks wear blades a lot faster, and cut slower, than light duty bricks, which is all you need. The significant difference between the low and medium duty bricks, in our application, is their ability to accomodate high temperatures -something unnecessary at the tempertures you will use in your oven. Money wasted.

From what I read, besides the higher thermal rating, the Alsey bricks are just in general better made, more of a true refractory brick rather than a 2000deg fire rated brick. Supposedly they have less issues with spalling, reduced thermal expansion, better re-radiation, and the overall best longevity. I saw mention of people paying ~$1.60 for Alsey bricks, which isn't much more than the other light-duty bricks around here. To me paying $80 more for better bricks is worth it, especially if it means possibly better longevity and lower risk of cracking from the heat cycling, not to mention it's still much less than the shipping cost for FB brick.

I stopped by a yard today and they carried Pacific Clay, Muddox and Superior/McNear firebricks and there was a visible difference between the 3 brands. The PC brick is very porous and pinkish with some consistency issues, the Muddox was tan and the least porous. While the Superior was in-between and had the best consistency, but is way more expensive. However it does come in 5 or 6 colors which you could use to spice up the entry arch and front hearth, and/or to match other brick/stone/stucco you may use for the support/enclosure.

[Lburou]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Regarding bricks, I did some more Google searching and found a group of aggregated posts (Link) from a guy who run's a well known Rumford fireplace company and he said the that between Muddox, Pacific Clay, Mutual, etc. that Alsey bricks are the best. According to him the ASTM standards for Firebrick was reduced and Alsey is the only one who makes bricks that meet or beat the old standard. There regular bricks are Medium-Duty, they don't even make a light duty brick. I am going to try an find a distributor down here, before I settle on an alternative.

From looking on Alsey's site they private label firebricks, in searching a previous FB poster found them under the Robinson name. Does anybody know if Alsey makes the FB bricks??

Anyhow just thought I would share the info. Considering the time invested in building the thing might as well try and use the best material possible.

Note: FWIW, the medium and high duty bricks wear blades a lot faster, and cut slower, than light duty bricks, which is all you need. The significant difference between the low and medium duty bricks, in our application, is their ability to accomodate high temperatures -something unnecessary at the tempertures you will use in your oven. Money wasted.

[das]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Regarding bricks, I did some more Google searching and found a group of aggregated posts (Link) from a guy who run's a well known Rumford fireplace company and he said the that between Muddox, Pacific Clay, Mutual, etc. that Alsey bricks are the best. According to him the ASTM standards for Firebrick was reduced and Alsey is the only one who makes bricks that meet or beat the old standard. There regular bricks are Medium-Duty, they don't even make a light duty brick. I am going to try an find a distributor down here, before I settle on an alternative.

From looking on Alsey's site they private label firebricks, in searching a previous FB poster found them under the Robinson name. Does anybody know if Alsey makes the FB bricks??

Anyhow just thought I would share the info. Considering the time invested in building the thing might as well try and use the best material possible.

[das]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Where in CA are you??

The HC Muddox plant is right down the road from me (20 minutes away) - they make all the brick/clay flue stuff you'd need. I already hit them up for firebricks for my firepit - still have 70 or so left over.

And - you can just order the insulating board and blanket from FB - although it it looks like Fiberfrax is a good supplier too (might be the same stuff). I'd like to find it local to avoid shipping costs.

I'm in SoCal, I called around to the local yards and it seems each one carries different brand brick, prices range from $1.15 for Pacific Clay, $1.48 for Mutual, and $3.75 for McNear bricks. Does anybody have experience with any of these manufacturers?

I would jump on the FB kit due to the large floor tiles and medium duty bricks, but the freight shipping kills it even in-state, which is now 3 times their original reduced rates. Regarding the board and blanket, from reading the old threads, the FB stuff is reportedly made in China. I put a call into a local industrial thermal solutions supplier RTI and they have a house (import) brand 24" ceramic blanket in 1" and 2" thickness, and 2'x4' ceramic board in many thickness's, both of which are roughly 1/2 the price of FB. They also carry Unifrax DuraBoard which is double the cost of import and DuraBlanket which is roughly 150% the price of the import. So it's either buy American for the same price and amount of insulation as the Pompeii kit, or move up to 4" all the way around for same money with the house brand import stuff.

[Cheesesteak]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Well that decision was quick. Went to ask the same question and you had already asked. I think I am going to build a 36" Pompeii as that fits within general fire code, and I don't want issues down the road.

Now my question is whether to buy the kit with all the fancy insulation, or source locally.

Where in CA are you??

The HC Muddox plant is right down the road from me (20 minutes away) - they make all the brick/clay flue stuff you'd need. I already hit them up for firebricks for my firepit - still have 70 or so left over.

And - you can just order the insulating board and blanket from FB - although it it looks like Fiberfrax is a good supplier too (might be the same stuff). I'd like to find it local to avoid shipping costs.

[Mike D]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Go for it Cheesesteak, now all you have to do is read though all the threads to figure out how you want to build it. Make a good plan and don't be afraid to change it as you move forward.

Mike

[das]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Well that decision was quick. Went to ask the same question and you had already asked. I think I am going to build a 36" Pompeii as that fits within general fire code, and I don't want issues down the road.

Now my question is whether to buy the kit with all the fancy insulation, or source locally.

[Cheesesteak]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Okay - well . . . it's settled - I'm going to build the Pompeii.

I've built the modular already anyway - so I might as well go Pompeii and say I did it.

I'll start up a new thread on the build - and I'll post some pics of the modular project with my outdoor fireplace and kitchen - just because.

Wish me luck.

[GianniFocaccia]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

Go to a art supply store and get a few pieces of cardboard

Great idea! But you don't have to spend any money on the materials.

If you have a Sam's or Costco in town go visit (you don't even need a membership) one and grab a couple of thick paper liners that they place between layers of paper towels/napkins etc. I usually pick up three or four at a time and have used them as templates for my oven floor and arch mock ups. They're easier to cut than cardboard and totally disposable.

[Mike D]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

You should cut out a template of the floor to size them up. This is a great way to see how much room you will have when cooking. Go to a art supply store and get a few pieces of cardboard. Cut one of your old oven 32" and another 40" or 42" to see what they feel like.

You don't usually make big pizzas in these ovens mostly because of how big the opening is (19"-20").

But I say if you want to build a Pompeii you should do it. Think of it as a family project. It's not about the money, it's about saying you actually built it the old school way.

Mike

[cannyfradock]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

So - I'm debating whether to dedicate the time to build the Pompeii - or to pick up a Casa modular oven to save time.

Around 3-4 years ago - I built a WFO . . . a modular oven from another supplier. We absolutely loved the oven - nothing like a 90 second pizza!

Anyway - we've moved. Built our home and I've spent quite a bit of time on home projects (epoxying garage floors, garage cabinets, outdoor seating walls, firepit, etc.) Prior to our move - I spent the better part of a year building our outdoor kitchen, fireplace, and WFO.

I'm building another WFO - but am thinking about getting the Casa so I don't need to spend my spring (three young kids that are active with sports, etc) working in the yard "again." I'd really like to build a pompeii - just to say I did it (and to save some $$) - but really would love the time saved by assembling the modular.

Any thoughts? Once you get the masonry shelf poured - how long does it take to build the pompeii? I'm an amateur mason - and likely wouldn't go through the trouble of making complex cuts (mortar is your friend!).

Oh the humanity . . .

Cheesesteak

Once the shelf is poured it can be anything up to 3 weeks before you complete your build. It is entirely up to you how much time you give to the project on evenings and weekends. Don't feel daunted by the task of building a "Pompeii" oven as there are many WFO guru's on this forum who will help you in every stage of your build. Many are experts and others are well experienced in this field to offer support and advice when needed.

I am limited in my experience but try to offer advice where I can to a group of WFO enthusiasts in Northern Europe. We had a person who was a tradesman in Fabrication and welding who wanted to build a Pompeii oven and his comment to us was ....." I'll just have to learn as I go on"

He surprised us all with this build... Picasa Web Albums - Charlie - Wood Fired Oven

I am a bricklayer by trade but the most impressive builds that I have seen have been built by people outside the wet trades industries....

.....Go for a Pompeii.....you won't regret it !!!

Terry

[Cheesesteak]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

I think it might be in bad taste to talk about other manufactures. But as in what size, there is a lot of talk about that on the forum.

- How much space do you have? How much wood do you have. The bigger the oven the more wood you will need and go through.

-If you make that many pizzas in one party you need a bigger oven than 32" , but you knew that. In reality, one never has more than 2 or 3 pizzas in the oven at one time, unless you have an army working at the oven.

-I would say a 40 or 42 would give you plenty of room to do what ever you want. I gives you room for lots of pizzas as well as leaving some spots open to heat up (as in rotate your pizzas to keep the floor hot).

Mike

First point well taken.

I've got plenty of space - and wood's not really an issue. It's just a question of trying to hit the sweet spot with oven size.

With my 32" WFO - I had the my wood cut smaller and double split. The pizza-parties were an "assembly line." Mostly neighborhood kids - and they would start at one end of the line rolling out dough - making the pizza, etc. I'd man the oven and the pizzas took less than 2 minutes to cook. By the time I was taking one pizza out with the metal peel - another was handed to me on the wood peel.

So - while it was "big enough" to do that job - I really want to make bigger pizzas - and want to do a bit more roasting. I'm thinking the 40" Casa2G might be in my future - but I'm still talking with the FB folks about a couple of things . . .

[Mike D]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

I think it might be in bad taste to talk about other manufactures. But as in what size, there is a lot of talk about that on the forum.

- How much space do you have? How much wood do you have. The bigger the oven the more wood you will need and go through.

-If you make that many pizzas in one party you need a bigger oven than 32" , but you knew that. In reality, one never has more than 2 or 3 pizzas in the oven at one time, unless you have an army working at the oven.

-I would say a 40 or 42 would give you plenty of room to do what ever you want. I gives you room for lots of pizzas as well as leaving some spots open to heat up (as in rotate your pizzas to keep the floor hot).

Mike

[Cheesesteak]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

I am still building my oven, it's lots of fun but it will consume your time and mind until you are done. You need to ask yourself how much time you have to do this and when do you want to finish it. Do you have small children? I do and they are not helping it go any faster. I like reading the treads with the older kids helping out with the concrete and blocks. As well as how much of a perfectionist are you. A Pompeii oven is not easy and if you don't know what you are doing it might drive you crazy. A modular oven will go up a lot faster but it will only look different from the inside. Good luck.

Mike

MIke - that's really my problem. I've built a modular WFO and my "old" house - and really wanted to build a pompeii. But - given my weekends for the next 2-3 months are consumed with my son's traveling baseball commitment - and the real desire to have the WFO done for this summer - it looks like a modular is in my future.

I'd like to get thoughts on the different manufacturers and sizes - I'm looking at the Casa2G 36, 40, and 44.

My old oven was a 32" - and it was too small given the amount of use we'd put it through (60-100 pizzas per-party!).

Thanks -

[Mike D]

Re: Debating between Pompeii and Modular build

I am still building my oven, it's lots of fun but it will consume your time and mind until you are done. You need to ask yourself how much time you have to do this and when do you want to finish it. Do you have small children? I do and they are not helping it go any faster. I like reading the treads with the older kids helping out with the concrete and blocks. As well as how much of a perfectionist are you. A Pompeii oven is not easy and if you don't know what you are doing it might drive you crazy. A modular oven will go up a lot faster but it will only look different from the inside. Good luck.

Mike