36" Pompeii in DC

[Gulf]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

So, if I'm following you correctly, it's worth putting mortar down to make sure the individual blocks lay flat, but I don't need to worry if the whole thing is sloped slightly, because the form will fix that. Makes sense.

I'm liking the C; for some reason it hadn't occurred to me that I could just add more bricks or blocks on the counter side to get the level up--since I'm thinking of putting something on the hearth landing to get it level with the oven entry, making the counter support taller could make things a lot easier.

Laying the mortar down on the first row can help with two things:
1. Helping to get the stand back into level (atleast some of it) .

2. It will help you dry stack the remaining courses without as much "wave" in the block which will give you tighter "dry stacked" joints.

Even if you had the foundation "perfectly level" and then "dry stacked" block on top or it you would not "top out" the stand perfect. Concrete blocks ain't perfectly formed. Close but no cigar .

I think that option C will be your best, if you want to keep the landing and side counters even. It gives you some room for adjustment at a later date.

[Tscarborough]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Dry stack requires the first course be mortar set. Dry stack is often confused with "easy" when in reality it often takes more time and talent to do it well than simply laying the block in mortar, plus the CMU are nominal sized which throws off your measurements. Allowable variation in individual CMU sizes is much larger than is practical for drystacking CMU without shimming or not worrying about plumb and level.

I have had idiots threaten lawsuits because the windows did not fit the rough openings on their large windows because they drystacked and used the nominal size instead of actually measuring.

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Well, I ended up putting down just enough mortar to get the first row of blocks more or less level, and then mortaring one other place in the stack to make it so things fit together tightly, with no rocking about. I got everything stacked, and this weekend I poured concrete down the cores.

[david s]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Dry stack requires the first course be mortar set. Dry stack is often confused with "easy" when in reality it often takes more time and talent to do it well than simply laying the block in mortar, plus the CMU are nominal sized which throws off your measurements. Allowable variation in individual CMU sizes is much larger than is practical for drystacking CMU without shimming or not worrying about plumb and level.

I have had idiots threaten lawsuits because the windows did not fit the rough openings on their large windows because they drystacked and used the nominal size instead of actually measuring.

If you put a window in your oven stand, you could have a bomb shelter with a view.

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Stupid question #4 (there will be more to come...):

I started making the tray for my hearth. I was having a heck of a time nailing the boards together on their sides, as called for in the Pompeii plans, so I thought "what the heck, I'll just have them upright". Except I decided this after I'd already cut the boards to size based on them having the 3.5" side facing up. So, as the attached picture shows, I have a ~2" gap on the sides. Presuming the plywood extends over the whole opening, is this a problem?

[texman]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Good job on the base. Couple of thoughts on the slab: I would add some more 2x4 to fill that gap. The weight on the edge will probably bend enough to allow alot of leakage of concrete. 2x4s are cheap. Just nail one on each side to fill and use some blocks if you need to get that snug against the base walls. Also, be sure and brace all around that frame to the floor. You will be adding a lot of weight with that slab. Also add 1/2" rebar and tie to your rebar in your walls. Several builders buttress the outer walls as well. Be careful, you dont want a failure here and spilled wet concrete. Good luck and keep up the good work.
Tracy

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Tracy: Thanks! I was wondering if extra 2x4's was the trick here. I'll do that. Visions of half a ton of wet concrete spilling to the floor of my stand are enough to make me want to get this right...

Was definitely planning on the rebar; I've got that cut already and cut the rebar in the walls long for exactly that purpose.

-Ryan

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Made a little bit of progress. Nailed a couple more 2x4s on the sides of my tray frame, cut a few more legs and jammed my empty concrete bags into the empty block cores . Trouble is, now I'm out of lumber . As I don't have a big enough car to easily take home large boards and sheets of plywood, this gets to be a bit of a problem. Might get the local lumber yard to cut the boards down for me and then see if I can stuff them in the back of my little hatchback. Frustrating part of it is that the lumber yard is literally around the corner; if the stuff weren't so awkward, I could just about carry it home...

[texman]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Hey, that looks much better. unfortunately, you need more lumber though.
You might figure all the stuff you are going to need, mucho concrete bags, rebar, plywood, 2 x 4s, nails, screws, etc. and get them to deliver it. You can stack the concrete bags on pallets in your yard and cover with tarps to keep dry until you are ready to pour. It might save a delivery fee if you order all the stuff at once and keep from having to put all that stuff in your car like the guy in the pic. Also, keep in mind to provide some buttress support to that top slab form, you don't want a concrete wave. This is a pic of a big pour showing some extreme buttressing (you don't need this) just cool to see. Also, make sure on the empty cores that you are filling with bags, that they are packed to the top firmly. Otherwise, the concrete weight will keep falling and you will keep mixing. You will probably want to rent a small mixer if are using sackrete for that oven base. Life is short, take shortcuts when you can. Keep up the good work.
Tracy

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

That first picture is pretty awesome Fortunately I don't need quite that much stuff on this run...

I actually did do a big delivery earlier, to get my concrete, blocks, and rebar, but didn't order enough lumber at the time . Now I just need a few 2x4s, 2x8s, shims, some more nails and maybe a couple extra bags of concrete to be on the safe side, and I don't want to pay $50 to ship <$100 work of stuff (that being what the lumber yard charges for orders under $500).

-Ryan

[texman]

Re: 36&quot; Pompeii in DC

Got a buddy with a truck?

[rsandler]

Re: 36&quot; Pompeii in DC

Unfortunately no. New to the area and all my co-workers at the new job are "bike to work, don't own a car" types.

Really the problem here is that I'm impatient. I signed up for a credit account with the lumber yard, which would get me free delivery...but not until Monday, leaving me with a lost weekend when I could be getting this thing framed up and ready to go

[Gulf]

Re: 36&quot; Pompeii in DC

RSandler,
I saw a couple of references to nails in your posts. When forming, I switched to deck screws some years ago. They make the forms a heck of a lot easier to "wreck". I like the star bit drive type deck screw. I have some that are on their 4th or 5th project. Phillips heads are what I call a "one time use". I now use nails only on framing permanent structures (and not many of them) .

[rsandler]

Re: 36&quot; Pompeii in DC

Gulf:

If you heard a loud, fleshy, smacking noise around the time you made that post, that was me smacking my forehead in a massive "duh" moment. I'd been using 3-1/4 inch framing nails, and having a hell of a time with it, with the boards getting out of alignment as I waled away with the hammer. But screws! Screws would have made it much easier

Anyway, I ended up picking up a box of deck screws (just phillips though ), along with shims and lumber on Saturday morning, and paid a few bucks extra to have the lumber yard cut it down for me to fit it in my car. I got the frame and legs finished, got my rebar in place, and screwed together the forms Saturday afternoon and evening, and we poured the hearth this afternoon! I'll post pictures later on.

[Gulf]

Re: 36&quot; Pompeii in DC

The phillips heads will work just fine, if you cover the heads so they don't fill up with mortar or concrete. Just make sure that you have the correct size driver bit for the screws .