36" Pompeii in DC

[mrchipster]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Tracy, DJ, thanks! I've been using a 7" "pointing trowel", which looks a lot like Tracy's picture. The trowel is great; it's the mortar that gives me grief . I'll get the hang of it sooner or later. Probably just as I'm closing up the dome.

Took out the arch form this evening. It stands! After I put the little one to be tonight, time to start cutting bricks for course 3.
Cheers,
-Ryan

Ryan,

I am not trying to be critical with the following statement but it is meant to help others who decide to build a similar arch to the style you built.

With the Arch shape you used and the bevel on the dome contact points you will still be fighting a slight tear drop or egg shape where the dome meets the arch, You will need to be aware of this as you add courses and work hard to try and keep the dome round near the arch. It can be accomplished and based on your apparent skills you will be able to do it.

The bevels you put on will help over designs that leave the inner arch bricks square, but for others trying to use this technique as the inner arch rises it should also go further and further into the center of the oven so that the bottom edge of the bevel matches the inside of the dome. this is easily determined if you are using an IT.

If you check edge of the bevel of your top arch brick on the low part of the bevel to the IT you will find that the arch is outside of where the inner surface of the dome will naturally want to be.

I am guessing if you set up your IT and align it with the top brick of the arch you will find something like the drawing (Black lines). The dome brick will want to be inside the bevel so you will need to adjust the cutting of your dome bricks to compensate.

For others that are interested in this reaching technique the arch bricks need to be cut to the colored line to compensate for the dome moving in as it moves up. The distance the brick moves in (becomes longer) increases with elevation. In my case the first brick of my inner arch was 5 inches long and the last was over 8 inches long.

Chip

[banhxeo76]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Tracy, DJ, thanks! I've been using a 7" "pointing trowel", which looks a lot like Tracy's picture. The trowel is great; ,
-Ryan

In my opinion, I believe that a pointing trowel is designed so that masonry can easily scoop mortar and throw on top of the brick. However, when it comes to mortaring up the dome of the WFO, we usually to butter up the two side of the firebrick and put it in place. But cutting the trowel, I find that it's more efficient to work with the mortar because I find it is hard to scoop mortar with a pointing trowel from a smaller bucket since we usually mixed a smaller batch of mortar for mortaring up the dome. In addition, it is easier to butter the mortar on the brick as well. Margin trowel is not wide enough. In addition, this eliminates of using the plywood to hold the mortar. Keeping mortar in a plastic bucket help it stay workable longer because plywood tend to suck moisture out of mortar which make it harder to work with. Just want to put in my two cents. Looking very good so far.

[texman]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

FWIW
I cut the bottom off of a 5 gal bucket to leave about a 4-5" deep bucket. I mix the mortar batch in that using a margin trowel and then transfer the mix to a piece of plywood where you can work the mortar and makes it really easy to load the brick trowel and keep the batch consistent as you lay the brick. Use the spray bottle to temper the mortar to the consistency you prefer once on the board and keep turning it over. HTH
Tracy

[Bookemdanno]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Spot board technique is best, like Tracy says, it allows you to work up the mortar a little if needed before use. You can get a "bucket trowel" too if needed. They are squared off at the end ready for use.

[mrchipster]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

I used a combination of a margin trowel, 3 inch drywall patching knife, and a silicone household cooking spatula. My mortar bowl was a stainless mixing bowl. In photo lower left. The bottle is hand lotion to keep my hands baby soft.

Brickie you have already commented on the hand lotion.

Chip

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

I've been using a small plastic tub, about 10"x12"x4" for mixing and holding my mortar, and lately doing all of the mixing with the pointing trowel--no problems on that end, though pulling out a spackling knife sounds promising. But Chip, having some hand lotion around sounds like genius to me. That Portland Cement is murder on my fingers!

I was on fire today--laid my whole third course, cut bricks for the fourth, and laid a few on course 4 as well. Finally figured out a routine that gets the bricks where I want them and mortar squishing out the back, without taking a ton of time. Pics attached.

If you check edge of the bevel of your top arch brick on the low part of the bevel to the IT you will find that the arch is outside of where the inner surface of the dome will naturally want to be.

I wish I'd thought of that when I was cutting my arch bricks. In general I kinda wish I'd thought out the arch a little more thoroughly. Mostly I figured that tapering the inside edge was a brilliant idea, and didn't really work out what angle the taper should be at to make the tie in as easy as possible.

For others that are interested in this reaching technique the arch bricks need to be cut to the colored line to compensate for the dome moving in as it moves up. The distance the brick moves in (becomes longer) increases with elevation. In my case the first brick of my inner arch was 5 inches long and the last was over 8 inches long.

I actually cut my whole bricks diagonal, so as to do two arch bricks with 3 cuts, so doing what you did would have been pretty easy, too!

Fortunately, the gap between the edge of the arch bricks and where the dome will hit isn't too big.


Hoping to finish course 4, and maybe even start cutting bricks for 5 tomorrow. My crazy goal of closing the dome before Thanksgiving is looking more reasonable all the time!

-Ryan

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Finished course 4, and cut some bricks for course 5. Hoping to finish that course during the week in the evenings, and be ready for 6 and 7 next weekend. Weather seems to be holding out--I'm learning to love East Coast autumns!

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Work on the oven this past week did not exactly go according to plan.

Course 5 was a breeze. Started mortaring bricks in Monday evening after work, and cut and placed the closers after putting the kid to bed Tuesday night. It helped that I finally got on top of my mortar problems, thanks in part a new jumbo batch of pre-mixed mortar (I ran out 6 bricks into course 5).

I used a different brand of sand, which I think was finer than what I'd been using before, and also upped the fireclay content by adding a few double handfuls of brick dust in addition to the full part of bagged fireclay. Whatever the cause, the mortar spreads easier, sticks better, holds its moisture better (less drying up on the buttered brick, plus less separating in the mortar bucket), squishes more easily without having to be too wet, and generally is more pleasant to work with.

If course 5 was a breeze, course 6 was more like the hurricane bearing down on us right now. What a pain! Between problems caused by switching to 1/3 bricks (5-6 tries to get the angle and bevel cuts right), problems caused by my clutzyness (no less than 5 tries to get the first brick mortared in without slipping), problems caused by gravity (the bricks, they just don't like holding themselves up!), and the fact that this was the course that had to get over the arch (5 bricks took all morning yesterday), course 6 flat out kicked my butt.

But, it's done! And I'm over the arch! I cut a nice tight closer this morning, laid a single brick for course 7, then cleaned up the work site and battened everything down to prepare for Hurricane Sandy, which is supposed to start bringing wind and rain our way any minute now. I actually could have done a bit more work this morning (as of 2pm we've yet to see any rain), but I'm just as glad to have the break, and to have the everything secured ahead of the storm.

Probably won't get too much work done this week, as we have family in town visiting, so I really shouldn't be running outside every evening after work, even after the hurricane clears.

Cheers!
-Ryan

[irelande5]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Looks great,look forwd to the rest of your build. Keep up the great work

[Les]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Ryan,

That is looking REALLY nice. You will thank yourself because you will never see a crack. It gets a lot harder from there but take your time - it can be done.

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Ryan,

That is looking REALLY nice. You will thank yourself because you will never see a crack. It gets a lot harder from there but take your time - it can be done.

Thanks! That means a lot coming from the king of tight joints . I hadn't thought about the tight inner joints hiding any cracks in the mortar, but that's definitely a big perk!

Not much work on the oven last week, owing partly to visiting family but mostly to a hurricane, work and other circumstances. I did manage to cut a few bricks during the week, and laid a few while chatting with my mom last Friday. I got her to grab my camera while we talked and I worked, and so I have (drumroll) action shots!

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

On Sunday, after the family had departed, I cut and laid the rest of course seven. I did manage a closer before I packed up work, but didn't manage to get back out with the camera before dark.

[ATK406]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Nice work! I think you were wise to put a double layer of insulating brick under your hearth (at least that's what it looks like you've done). I finished up my oven back in September and it's working great but I think I'm losing more heat than a I expected..to the slab. Not much I can do about it now.

I also like the way you angled your inner arch to match the dome. By your own account, you may not have gotten the variable pitch exactly right but the end result is very nice and it was probably alot easier than muddling through as I had to do. I wish I had spent more time looking into this aspect of the build. Marrying my dome to my "vertical" inner arch was a very time consuming process. My mistake...Newbies beware!

[brickie in oz]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

But Chip, having some hand lotion around sounds like genius to me. That Portland Cement is murder on my fingers!

Its more likely that anyone with girly office worker hands will find the abrasiveness of masonry murder on their hands, not the cement.

Ive worked with cement all my life but find that if I have a few weeks off from work my hands go all soft and girly then they tend to wear/abrade and burn.
Its the small cuts in the skin that hurt not the cement, in my opinion.

[rsandler]

Re: 36" Pompeii in DC

Veteran's day landed at just the right time this year. Three days of perfect, sunny, mid-60's fall weather, and perfectly overlapped a three day weekend. You can't ask for more than that. We threw a birthday party for my now 2-year old daughter, went on a picnic, and of course, I spent a lot of time working on the oven. Nothing like working outside in lovely weather.

To wit:

Eight


Nine


Ten


And each one harder than the last, let me tell you! Not hard in the ways I expected, either. I actually haven't had much of a problem with gravity, ironically enough--the bricks largely have been staying where I put them. On course 9 I had a terrible time keeping on bond, and with course 10 the angle of the bevel cuts gave me conniptions. After several tries that were either too sharply beveled or not beveled enough, I gave up and cut a variety of bevels and just alternated over- and under-beveled bricks :P.

All of this has been great fun, even the frustrating bits. My rough measuring tells me that I could either do one more course and a large plug, or two more courses and a really tiny plug. I'm leaning toward the former--if I do a 12th course I don't think I'll be able to use my IT, and I've really come to rely on the thing!

More pictures attached.