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**roncut** · 07-18-2013, 03:15 PM

Re: A New Journey

I don't know if you have fire brick there but that is what you need. I am retired and in Payson and would like to offer you my help if you would like. I have built two ovens, one out of the wrong material and the second that has survived for going on 3 years and still looks great. I have lots of pictures but havent figured how to upload so I have given up on that.

**deejayoh** · 07-18-2013, 03:46 PM

Re: A New Journey

If you know Russell, you're in good hands!

**the_dr_masuess** · 07-20-2013, 12:21 PM

Re: A New Journey

Originally posted by deejayoh View Post

If you know Russell, you're in good hands!

Russell definitely knows his stuff and he will be a valued asset.

**the_dr_masuess** · 07-20-2013, 12:23 PM

Re: A New Journey

Originally posted by roncut View Post

I don't know if you have fire brick there but that is what you need. I am retired and in Payson and would like to offer you my help if you would like. I have built two ovens, one out of the wrong material and the second that has survived for going on 3 years and still looks great. I have lots of pictures but havent figured how to upload so I have given up on that.

Thanks Roncut. Russell (UtahBeehiver) gave me some of his leftover firebrick and I also just picked up some more Thanks for participating in my process. I'll be posting all my questions to this thread and you comments/suggestions are very welcome!

**Tscarborough** · 07-20-2013, 12:38 PM

Re: A New Journey

Take your time, no need to hurry it along, the journey is half the fun. Having Russel close is a bonus, I am sure he can talk you through any sticky bits.

**the_dr_masuess** · 07-20-2013, 01:02 PM

Re: A New Journey

Well this past week I've been pressing forward with my WFO desires. I bought a brick/masonry saw with stand, I bought some additional firebrick and I also purchased some insulated firebrick.

I'll start off with the Saw. I took Russell's recommendation in going to Harborfreight to get the saw. Comparable saws run about $800+ and well I definitely did not want to spend that much for a saw. I also had a 20% off coupon so the Saw ended up costing about $325 with a stand and a 1 year warranty. I thought I would buy the warranty just in case. I set up the saw on Thursday night. (pictured below)

Friday morning I went down to Anderson Development in Orem. They are the developers for the Old Geneva steel. I purchased about 60 smaller size bricks and 70 full size bricks. Their full size bricks are a bit larger than the normal bricks. These bricks are 4.5x5x9.5 with a slight taper. I've been debating on multiple options cutting and I think I'll be cutting them in half and then in half again but maybe doing my soldier course with the big 4.5x5x4.75... I haven't decided that yet but I have plenty of time for that... (see pictured brick for size)

I was browsing KSL (similar to craigslist for utah but better) and I saw a guy who had put a whole bunch of insulated firebrick up for $1/brick I of course being a dummy didn't read the insulating part. I drove up to West Haven which was about a 45 min drive and immediately saw that they weren't the firebrick I was looking for. With that said I still went ahead and bought more than I will probably need. I'll be using these below the firebrick floor of the oven. The guy i bought them from built a kiln with these thinks and his kiln gets up to about 1800 degrees and he can touch the insulated bricks and they are cool to the touch on the outside. He bought them on a government auction and I think they were going to be used out a Dougway to dispose of some government stuff... but all I know is that they seem to be a good product and I bought more than I will need. I bought about 100 bricks and he ended up selling them to me for $.80. I've been debating if I can figure out a way to cut the brick to put on the outside of dome and then using mortar to set them in place. Kind of like a dome over a dome... Thoughts?

The last picture I uploaded is a picture of my back yard from my deck. I was thinking about putting the WFO all the way in the back corner of the lot. I also have an 11.5' outdoor grill island which I may or may not integrate in to the WFO. I would like to integrate it but the cost goes up very quick when adding in appliances/running electric all the way out there. My thought is anyway with landscaping is to do the oven with integrated grill island in the back corner by the pile of weeds... then in the far corner do a firepit and patio ect... The whole thing would be behind some thick trees so it is somewhat secluded from the rest of the yard and somewhat hidden. Does anyone else have thoughts on where I should put the oven? If I put it all the way in the back I have to get a Bobcat and move quite a bit of dirt to level out the area back there and pull out a few tree roots that are sprouting up. Anyway... I can't wait to hear all of your thoughts and ideas.

I also took a picture of two options that I have drawn up. Option 1 would be much larger in the end but can be done in sections. I can do the WFO section to start and then add the other sections later on when I want to. Option 2 I used the corner design from Russell and split my grill island in half and put the WFO in between.

**the_dr_masuess** · 07-29-2013, 10:41 AM

Re: A New Journey

Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions from my previous post?

**deejayoh** · 07-29-2013, 10:57 AM

Re: A New Journey

Loren -
A lot there...

Couple comments -
- the IFB will work great under the oven for an insulating layer. And that is a fantastic price. Nice score! The idea of putting them around the dome sounds good, but not sure what you'd use for mortar? I used a couple of them on my oven as a buffer between my arch and a buttress and found that they are difficult to adhere with mortar because they don't absorb any water. Plus if you do use mortar, it's not really insulating.

On the location, I have a couple thoughts.
- I hear you on the cost of running utilities. I ran only gas and electric to my outdoor kitchen and that was expensive. Both required tradesmen - the gas pipe you can't buy without being a licensed contractor, and the electric required a new circuit which I was not up to. I briefly considered a sink but balked at the thought of running a sewer line.
- The corner design doesn't have a lot of room between the BBQ and oven, if you think you might be using both at once. I looked at that design but like having one long run of counter so ultimately chose not to put my oven in the corner. You have a lot of room, not like you need to conserve space.
- Think about how far you need to carry stuff from your kitchen to your oven. There's a lot of back and forth for prep, taking out all the fixin's. You will appreciate having it closer IMHO.

**the_dr_masuess** · 07-29-2013, 12:22 PM

Re: A New Journey

Originally posted by deejayoh View Post

Loren -
A lot there...

Thanks for the suggestions. The insulating brick definitely was a good price. I had the same thoughts about putting it around the dome but don't really know how well it would work so I'm sure I'll end up getting the ceramic fiber blanket.

As to placement... I have plenty of space and the more I think about it I like doing option 1 better than two even though it isn't a corner option. Option 1 allows me to just do the WFO and then add on to it later.

I actually have an electrical conduit run out to the patio for a future hottub/grill island so it would pretty much be cost of conduit and wire to get electric out there. I don't think I would want to run gas all the way out there. I would just stick with LP and refill it. I have my main gas grill on the balcony hooked up to natural gas so the one out there wouldn't be the primary.

I bought 2 Diamond Blades today. I will take pictures of them when they arrive on Wednesday. I bought a blade that was made specifically for refractory brick and was some what pricey and then I bought a cheapy diamond blade for masonry. I wanted to test what would hold up to strong use. Both blades are made by MK. I'll get pictures up on Wednesday when they arrive. I thought it would be a good test for those interested in doing this in the future since I haven't seen too much about the different blade types/brands discussed.

**Les** · 07-29-2013, 02:08 PM

Re: A New Journey

I opted to build my oven as close to the house as code would allow. I also build it by the nearest door to the kitchen. As Deejayoh mentioned, there is a lot of prep. Unless you build a true kitchen in the back 40 (and a place for all the guest to eat) there will be a lot of walking.

**UtahBeehiver** · 07-29-2013, 02:24 PM

Re: A New Journey

Hi Loren,

You have been busy. You can definately use the insulating brick under your floor brick. It will save you having to use ceramic board or vcrete. Are you going to use the latest Geneva bricks for the floor? I think DerkP did a build using these exact bricks on the floor. They may work better there. Remember these bricks are 65% Alumina and will kill off any diamond blade in short order. As we talked I would focus on tight inside joints versa what I did trying to make tight joint inside to outside. Mortar will be you friend and no one ever sees the outside of the dome after your done. Placement of the outdoor kitchen is up to you but the farther away the more distance you have to travel to get to the house, IMHO. Since you are using insulating brick under your floor, pass on the ceramic board I gave you to another local WFO builder. BTW, before you get too carried away with the HP saw, set up an external water supply for the pump. THe brick residual is really hard on them. A homer bucket and extending the tubing does the trick. Gulf came up with an automatic bucket refill system using a toilet valve. Good Luck.

**GIANLUCA** · 07-29-2013, 05:05 PM

Re: A New Journey

I placed my kitchen 12' from my house which has a basement kitchen whether its 12' or 20' smoke will still get in your house so make it as convenient possible of course in regards to code here is was 15' I cheated 3'. I love the location and so does everyone who comes over they all thought it was too close during the build

**oasiscdm** · 07-30-2013, 02:44 AM

Re: A New Journey

Originally posted by deejayoh View Post

If you know Russell, you're in good hands!

Hi Loren and welcome

Ditto so very true, having Russell close by you are very lucky.

**the_dr_masuess** · 07-30-2013, 08:21 AM

Re: A New Journey

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas everyone!!

If it was far away... the thought would be to have a large Patio with a firepit/table and chairs, pergola etc and It would be a fully functioning outdoor kitchen. with Fridge, Sink, Grill, and storage. But I can see your point that having it far away may not be the best unless we have everything available close by. So far away may not be the funnest especially in our Utah Winters. Making the long trek out in winters wouldn't be too fun. I'll have to give it some thought and talk about it with the family.

@ Russell I have been trying to stay busy and keep this project as a priority in spite of everything else I should be doing with the yard. I don't know if I'll use those bricks for the floor. I was thinking about buying some uniform Flat bricks for the bottom floor to make sure the joints were nice and small for the most part. I'll get to that in a while though. I still have so much else to do before the floor so I haven't given it too much thought. Thanks for the hint of moving the water pump in to a different location. the Saw I bought has a separate water section for the pump to sit in which has a wall a few inches high but I'll try your suggestion too. I'm really curious to see how the different blades do. I should be able to talk more about the blades in the coming weeks/months when I start cutting some of the brick down to size

@Oasis I am lucky to have him close by just in case I need that extra insight.

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